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9 months ago ::
Sep 26, 2012 - 9:37PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
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The short rest that is required to get back an encounter power - is that a mechanism of game balance? Or a mechanism of world integration?
To put it another way:
Do character need to take a short rest to get their encounter powers back simply to justify the powers being 1/encounter? Or is it a balance issue... the power shouldn't be usable more often than the character is capable of spending 10 minutes resting.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 26, 2012 - 10:17PM
#2
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Date Joined:
Apr 10, 2009
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I don't quite understand the question.
But I suspect that the answer is a bit of both - with balance being the ultimate reason.
The powers are balanced to be used once per encounter.
Calling a power an abstract 'encounter power' is dissociated and bothers some people.
To avoid that - they created a mechanism (the short rest) and ruled that such powers required this time spent resting for the power to recover.
'Encounter' Powers with long term durations were then set to 10 minute durations to ensure that by the time the power refreshed, their duration had expried (this last was also true for 4E which is why many powers exprire 'at the end of the encounter or after five mnutes'.
Carl
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9 months ago ::
Sep 26, 2012 - 10:18PM
#3
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Date Joined:
Jan 20, 2002
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Both? But "you must rest at least 5 minutes to recover this ability" is a more inworld explanation, and uses more inworld terminology, than "once per encounter". I think it exists to balance the game, but the wordage exists to keep 4E haters from hating.
But that's coming from a 4E liker.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 26, 2012 - 10:40PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
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The sillyness of the short rest bothers me considerably more than the 'gamest' concept of a once per encounter power. The idea that the party camps out for 10 minutes after every fight (no matter where they are at the time, or what's going on) bothers deeply.
(edit: rewording a bit... I had that parenthetical awkwardly placed)
I guess the question is: does once per 10 minute rest mean "encounter power"?
Which of the following is most accurate?
1) Characters are supposed to take a 10 minute nap after every fight
2) Characters get these powers back the next time they have a chance to rest
3) something else entirely
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9 months ago ::
Sep 26, 2012 - 11:17PM
#5
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The sillyness of the short rest bothers me considerably more than the 'gamest' concept of a once per encounter power. The idea that the party camps out for 10 minutes after every fight (no matter where they are at the time, or what's going on) bothers deeply.
(edit: rewording a bit... I had that parenthetical awkwardly placed)
I guess the question is: does once per 10 minute rest mean "encounter power"?
Which of the following is most accurate?
1) Characters are supposed to take a 10 minute nap after every fight
2) Characters get these powers back the next time they have a chance to rest
3) something else entirely
They don't need a nap, just not to exert themselves to much. They need a breather. It doesn't mean they don't move just keep walking or take a heal break and then move on, or stop if you want.
I think it's perfectly justifiable. I'm willing to believe I might be able to jump a small chasm, but not that I can do it over an over again without taking a quick rest first.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 26, 2012 - 11:22PM
#6
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Date Joined:
Apr 10, 2009
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The sillyness of the short rest bothers me considerably more than the 'gamest' concept of a once per encounter power. The idea that the party camps out for 10 minutes after every fight (no matter where they are at the time, or what's going on) bothers deeply.
(edit: rewording a bit... I had that parenthetical awkwardly placed)
I guess the question is: does once per 10 minute rest mean "encounter power"?
Which of the following is most accurate?
1) Characters are supposed to take a 10 minute nap after every fight
2) Characters get these powers back the next time they have a chance to rest
3) something else entirely
The idea of the party 'camping out' for 10 minutes bothers me a bit as well. But only because it isn't always an option. I made it clear to my party that their ability to rest was dependent upon the logic of the sitution.
As an example - I pointed out that if they attack an Orc lair and kill the front guards - they are not going to be left alone to rest for 10 minutes. They would need to either find somewhere they can defend, with perhaps some players resting while other's stood guard or they might find some way to hide out where the orcs can't find them (rope trick springs to mind). But they can't just sit down in the entrance and take a break.
But as long as you apply some realism to when and where they will be able to take a 10 minute break - I don't have any problem with it.
Carl
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9 months ago ::
Sep 26, 2012 - 11:44PM
#7
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The short rest that is required to get back an encounter power - is that a mechanism of game balance? Or a mechanism of world integration?
To put it another way:
Do character need to take a short rest to get their encounter powers back simply to justify the powers being 1/encounter? Or is it a balance issue... the power shouldn't be usable more often than the character is capable of spending 10 minutes resting.
The answer is: To get back an “encounter” spell, the hero needs to take a “short rest”.
Notice, the “encounter” ends *when* the hero takes a short rest.
If the hero cant rest, then all the action is still part of the same encounter.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 27, 2012 - 12:25AM
#8
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They could probably go back to 4e's five minutes without it being much of an issue. I don't actually think that it's unreasonable for, absent significant time pressure, heroes to take a few minutes to catch their breath after a fight; it's not a nap; it's that fighting for your life is stressful and tiring, and it takes a few minutes to catch your breath, check your stuff, grab a drink, patch yourself (or your buddy) up, and regain your composure.
As a 4e veteran, at least in my games the assumption is that whatever happens between fights is sufficiently restful that encounter powers come back and anything else that's done during a short rest can be done there, except in cases where that's explicitly not the case (in which case the "encounter" is just a series of smaller encounters.) In some circumstances there might be real pressure against taking short rests, but generally it's not an issue. (For gamist reasons, I often have the effect of a short rest occur between fights even if narratively one would not be occurring - for example, if the PCs are in freefall it's hard to justify them really resting between encounters, but if I make the players go through the hassle of learning a bunch of fighting-in-freefall rules, I'm sure as heck not going to only run one encounter with them.)
Dwarves invented beer so they could toast to their axes. Dwarves invented axes to kill people and take their beer.
"Feel free to claim I said anything you like. How's someone going to call you out on it? Are they going to be all like, 'I know all of the things that Gary said, and that's not one of them?'"
- Gary Gygax
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9 months ago ::
Sep 27, 2012 - 1:11AM
#9
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Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
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The answer is: To get back an “encounter” spell, the hero needs to take a “short rest”.
Notice, the “encounter” ends *when* the hero takes a short rest.
If the hero cant rest, then all the action is still part of the same encounter.
Hmm, I suppose how I feel about that will depend on how heavy characters end-up being on encounter resources. It's the game balance effects of encounter resources that really bother me, not just the narrative impact.
If encounter powers are a light enough element in the players arsenal that its simply a matter of "warlocks are very effective in skirmishes, good in large battles, and a little weak in prolonged fights/time sensitive scenarios" then that's fine.
I'm trying not to derail my own thread into "this is why I hate 4e". Lets just say the reason I made the thread was to confirm that these are, by design intent and in-game function, 4e style encounter powers.
@lesp
Yeah, that's pretty much what my group did as well. In fact, in order to pull off a "boss battle" one of our DMs actually had us gain the effects of a short rest at the midway point of the battle. (I think I may have used that once in a somewhat tongue and cheek "epic campaign"... or maybe it was a mid battle 'free long rest')
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9 months ago ::
Sep 27, 2012 - 3:14AM
#10
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Date Joined:
Aug 13, 2004
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Daily powers are back with a long rest, encounter powers with a short rest.
4th edition streamlined a lot of D&D elements, 5th edition seems to go farther in this direction (advantage, resistance), like all editions before.
The problem with the newest editions is to integrate sacred cows from previous editions in a more streamlined system.
"They are making it clear that when modern design and common sense come into conflict with tradition, tradition wins." - thecasualoblivion
"Vancian isn't broken, you just have to set your game to the wizard's clock!" - Oxybe
"In many ways, making a new edition of D&D is alot like trying to sell a car to the Amish." - Dwarfslayer
"Encounters are the heart of the AD&D game" - PHB AD&D 2nd edition.
"you shouldn't even bother trying to become like me." - Gary Gygax (Elfcrusher confirmed)
"Feel free to claim I said anything you like. How's someone going to call you out on it? Are they going to be all like, 'I know all of the things that Gary said, and that's not one of them?'"
- Gary Gygax
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