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9 months ago ::
Sep 26, 2012 - 8:40PM
#1
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- VCL Emeritus
- The Inquisitor
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The word "core" often comes up in discussions, but it is not always clear what that means as it has had different definitions in different editions.
One common meaning is the rules and options present in the iconic "core" rulebooks, the Player's Handbook, the Dungeon Master's Guide, and the Monster Manual.
So, I thought it would be a fun little experiment to see just what elements each edition has in common. Listed below are some of the "core" elements of D&D as defined by what appears in every edition's version of the core three rulebooks.
Races
Dwarf
Elf
Half-Elf
Halfling
Human
Classes
Cleric
Fighter
Paladin
Ranger
Rogue (Thief)
Wizard (Mage/Magic-User)
Monsters
Basilisk
Beholder
Bugbear
Bulette
Carrion Crawler
Chimera
Demon, Balor (Type VI)
Demon, Marilith (Type V)
Devil, Pit Fiend
Displacer Beast
Doppleganger
Dragon, Black
Dragon, Blue
Draogn, Green
Dragon, Red
Dragon, White
Dryad
Dwarf
Efreeti
Elemental
Elf
Ettin
Gargoyle
Gelatinous Cube
Ghost
Ghoul
Giant, Fire
Giant, Hill
Giant, Storm
Gnoll
Gnome
Goblin
Golem, Flesh
Golem, Stone
Gorgon
Griffon
Halfling
Harpy
Hell Hound
Hobgoblin
Homonculous
Hydra
Imp
Kobold
Lamia
Lich
Lizard Man (Lizardfolk)
Lycanthrope, Wererat
Lycanthrope, Werewolf
Manticore
Medusa
Mind Flayer
Minotaur
Mummy
Naga, Guardian
Nightmare
Ochre Jelly
Ogre
Ogre Mage (Oni)
Orc
Otyugh
Owlbear
Purple Worm
Rakshasa
Roc
Roper
Sahuagin
Salamander
Satyr
Skeleton
Spectre
Sphinx
Stirge
Titan
Treant
Troglodyte
Troll
Umber Hulk
Unicorn
Vampire
Wight
Wraith
Wyvern
Zombie
Note on the monster list: I chose to ignore mundane animals and vermin type critters. I used the 2nd Edition Monstrous Manual hardcover, rather than the original three-hole punched folios. I also used the 3rd Edition Monster Manual rather than 3.5.
Quentin Small
WotC Online Community Coordinator
All around helpful simian
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9 months ago ::
Sep 26, 2012 - 8:59PM
#2
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Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
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So what's books and editions did you compare? Just 2nd and 3rd? I personally don't have access to any 1e books... well my old monster manual might somewhere around here. Not sure. (and my brother ran off with all my 2e stuff)
You do say every edition... well every edition would be a lot of books, and technically would include elves, dwarves and hobbits halflings as classes. What I mean is... if you went back far enough the concepts of races and classes as seperate entities wouldn't core, so I'm guessing you mean Ad&d, 2nd edition, 3rd edition and 4th edition.
(also didn't mean to quote the whole post!)
I was editing this fix my post when he responded, just ignore this :P
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9 months ago ::
Sep 26, 2012 - 9:02PM
#3
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- VCL Emeritus
- The Inquisitor
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I used...
AD&D 1st Edition Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide and Monster Manual
AD&D 2nd Edition Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, and Monstrous Manual
3rd Edition Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, and Monster Manual
4th Edition Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, and Monster Manual
If I were to include the Rules Cyclopedia (the hardcover compilation of the BECMI version of D&D), the lists would narrow even further. In such a case, for the sake of discussion, I would probably count Elf, Dwarf, and Halfling as races though they are, in fact, classes, in BECMI.
Quentin Small
WotC Online Community Coordinator
All around helpful simian
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9 months ago ::
Sep 26, 2012 - 9:10PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
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Ok, I think that's fair. There is definately a big departure in the transition from D&D to AD&D.
As far as discussing core though... what about the premise in 4e that "everything is core"
It's debatable whether the claim makes it true or not, but it's true that they held some things back in order to introduce them later and increase the credibility of that stance.
Basically I'm thinking - you need to throw in the 4e PH2 & MM2. I may be wrong, but the metallic dragons and gnomes would otherwise be in this list for instance, correct?
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9 months ago ::
Sep 26, 2012 - 9:14PM
#5
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- VCL Emeritus
- The Inquisitor
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As noted in the first post, the word "core" has had a few different definitions, so, for the purposes of this thread, I went with the first three "core" rulebooks of each edition.
Quentin Small
WotC Online Community Coordinator
All around helpful simian
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9 months ago ::
Sep 26, 2012 - 9:28PM
#6
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Definitely remove Half-Elf from “core”.
I like Half-Elves and think they are important, but treating them as if they are a separate race, rather than some kind of multirace - similar to a multiclass - is something that depends on the personal tastes of the players at the table. It is just as easy to take a Human, make it resemble Elf stats, pick up an Elf feat or two, and call it a “Half-Elf”.
For me, the answer to this question defines what “Core” is or isnt, in D&D Next:
Are optional “backgrounds” core? Yes or no.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 27, 2012 - 6:13AM
#7
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What about weapons/armor/equipment?
I imagine longsword and dagger are core. But has their been a spiked chain in every edition?
guides
Show
my builds
Show
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 27, 2012 - 6:32AM
#8
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Date Joined:
Apr 23, 2009
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I think your Core would make a great Core. Monsters of course I'd probably increase on day 1 but classes and races are good for me.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 27, 2012 - 6:34AM
#9
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Date Joined:
Nov 19, 2007
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I think of Paladin and Ranger as sub-classes of Fighter, so my core class list would be Fighter, Mage, Rogue, Cleric. And I agree with Haldrik that Half-Elf should be removed from core. While it's been in just about every edition, it really is a "multirace". It doesn't have anything really unique about it.
In memory of wrecan and his Unearthed Wrecana.5e should strongly stay away from "I don't like it, so you can't have it either."
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9 months ago ::
Sep 27, 2012 - 6:36AM
#10
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I like Half-Elves and think they are important, but treating them as if they are a separate race, rather than some kind of multirace - similar to a multiclass - is something that depends on the personal tastes of the players at the table. It is just as easy to take a Human, make it resemble Elf stats, pick up an Elf feat or two, and call it a “Half-Elf”.
Has there been any edition of the game that actually treats half-elves this way? Or is it just what you'd like to see? And if it is just what you'd like to see, how can you claim that it's an alternative to the "core" half-elf race?
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