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8 months ago ::
Oct 01, 2012 - 3:49PM
#131
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Date Joined:
Jun 15, 2004
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You realize of course my posts are mostly joking, right?
Yes. I too was not completely serious when I stated that we "have cold, black souls that feed on our player's salty tears".
I don't play 4e btw.
Ah. This explains a lot. It's a kinder, gentler edition which pretty much advocates exactly what you mocked. But as mentioned: that isn't necessarily bad.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 01, 2012 - 3:50PM
#132
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Date Joined:
Jun 25, 2009
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Don't rely on smilies. If your tone can be misinterpreted, it's better to consider saying something else, or clarifying it with words.
True. It's certainly better than hoping the other side suddenly has an epiphany or realization that you intended X when you said Y.
My username should actually read: Lunar Savage (damn you WotC!)
*Tips top hat, adjusts monocle, and walks away with cane* and yes, that IS Mr. Peanut laying unconscious on the curb.
http://asylumjournals.tumblr.com/
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8 months ago ::
Oct 01, 2012 - 3:54PM
#133
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Date Joined:
Jun 12, 2009
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You realize of course my posts are mostly joking, right?
Yes. I too was not completely serious when I stated that we "have cold, black souls that feed on our player's salty tears".
Damnit, time to go reevaluate my life. 
We summoned a devil once. All we used was the D&D books, too. It was pretty kwazy.
God of Arrested Development and Intelligence 
Resident Left Hand of Stalin and Banana Stand Grandstander
Pie-Cooling-On-A-Windowsill of the House of Trolls
In the morning HK'll be sober but you'll still be a meatbag.
I know I misspell "Danke" in my posts. It's an inside joke.
"Ten cents gets you nuts." -George Michael
Spoiler:
Show
''Being president is like running a cemetery: you've got a lot of people under you and nobody's listening.''
—Bill Clinton
You are not a moral man. There are not enough middle fingers in the world for you.
Why do I get a silly PG-13 man giggle
going everytime I see Fist Of The Forest ?
Actually, Santa just didn't like you. However, you weren't on the Naughty List, so he had to give you something "better" than coal.
I'd take coal. Heating your house is expesive, and engery cost arn't going down.
Mabey if i beat enough homeless people, i won't have to be cold this year. 
"Heroes"...I wish I had those. I remember in my first-ever campaign one PC went around shootin all the unconscious baddies in the head to gain Dark Side Points...
Whaaaaaat?!??
Wow...way to waste perfectly good potential slaves.
Er...no wait I mean..uh...something not evil!
(Quotes screwed up on the next one, won't give the poster's name. It's in the Best Lines thread on the D&D forum)
First, an experience from a game I played in a few years back. Our DM didn't like 3.5 as a whole but liked parts of it. So he hands us a big ass rules packet for his modified FR campaign, complete with quotes from important NPC's on the front. I can't remember most of the HRs, just that some how gods like Cyric and Bhaal existed at the same time, despite the obvious problems there. In the end the game became a problem more because of the railroading than the HRs, but it ended with this classic line, after our ranger tried to disarm the strange woman following us WITH HIS BOW: DM: You just killed (insert random noble sounding name here) JP: Was she important? Jack: Dude, she's quoted on the front of the rules packet!
"Why in the wide,wide, world of all things irrational would I help you?
-Daniel Jackson
"Fun will now commence."
-Seven of Nine
"Excellent."
-Mr. Burns.
Whey is a crotch.
Cut the last encounter on your way out after dealing with the Darth. He's the BBEG. Treat him as such. Play up that Darth Revan is THAT much of a badarse. When the shuttle landed, I had no less than 13 JEDI MASTERS step off the shuttle. The PCs were slack-jawed. After the meetup with Bastila (as she's carrying Revan's body), only TWO jedi masters remained with her. Let me tell you, the player whining about not getting to fight Revan himself shut up pretty quickly when he saw that.
There's so much you can do with insanity, especially when it has alot of resources.
1. Cleric cast protection from fire on Tank.
2. Tank goes in and get surrounded by enemies.
3. Wizard cast fireball and blows them up.
4. ???
5. Profit
I go by the saying," If it ain't friendly fire then it's not working."
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8 months ago ::
Oct 01, 2012 - 5:44PM
#134
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Date Joined:
Mar 22, 2011
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Damnit, time to go reevaluate my life.
Because you don't want to sell us death sticks.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 02, 2012 - 12:23AM
#135
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Date Joined:
Jan 11, 2007
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When is the DM “allowed” to put player characters in a dangerous or complicated situation? Consider the following opening scene, framed by the DM:
DM: “Dangerous and complicated thing X happens.”
P1: “What about my ability that prevents X from happening?”
P2: “What about realism that says X wouldn’t happen?”
P3: “I’m not even there for X to happen to me.”
In a game of fantasy adventuring, ostensibly, players want DMs to put them in trouble. After all, they’ve willingly chosen a career and lifestyle that will put them in trouble on a regular basis. This is the game we have chosen to play. Otherwise, we'd be playing some other game, right?
I have noticed on occasion, however, that players will object to being put in that danger and asked to figure a way out of it. Now, we’re not talking about (in this scenario) the DM negating a player declaration purposefully. In other words, the DM is not saying you’ve pulled a lever you never said you pulled (or specifically said you avoided) and caused said dangerous and complicated thing to occur. The dangerous or complicated situation must follow what’s gone before. Where nothing has been declared or established, however, the DM has taken liberties and established elements that create compelling action.
Or is that not cool? What justifies whether or not a DM’s dangerous or complicated situation flies with the players? What hoops does the DM need to jump through to make it “okay” to put the characters in a spot like that? As a DM, would you be okay if the players modified the scene the DM established to bring it in line with something they find more palatable? As a player who would seek to do that, would you make the dangerous or complicated situation easier on yourselves? If so, why?
(Note: If you could put your responses in terms other than “it’s just my preference,” that would be very helpful to the discussion.)
I've encountered this with some of my newer and younger players (13). I think this comes down to building trust between DM and players. The DM will always need cooperation from players to get anything to work. How a DM achieves this is still a mystery to me, but I'm hoping that time will be the cure. This is a very complex question. I'd be interested to see some strategies for helping to create player buy-in.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 04, 2012 - 5:46AM
#136
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Date Joined:
Nov 10, 2008
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Right, we set that up. Railroading would be a straitjacketed plot the DM preplanned.
That's what I understand the term to mean and there's certainly no plot in this adventure and thus no railroading.
To me this seems to be the key issue: the start-scene of the session is (if not in detail then roughly) predetermined by the DM, and this can be interpretated in several ways regarding the 'railroading'-question, including:
As in the above quote (no preplanned plot - everything is open for the PCs from the start-scene onwards (and the players have their say in how the start-scene situation came into being - son not 'railroading').
Or: since the start-scene (except for details) is predetermened the PCs didn't get a chance to avoid the situation, i.e. the DM forced this specific situation in place, and in that understanding of the term it can be perceived as 'railroading' (ie. forcing the players to a predetermined destination, without giving them a chance to change direction or jump off the train so to speak ;-) )
As was noted in a previous post it is all a matter of expectations, I think. (As a DM I am always very careful and rarely design start-scenes that requires events and situations where the PCs actions could have mattered regarding the outcome (unless the assumed actions of the PCs are rather non-controversial). This doesn't mean that every campaign I run are sandbox-type or are without some (pre-)determined plot or a degree of railroading - the players seem to like some amount of it, and watch a plot or story unfold, but at the same time they want to be in control of their PCs and to have a feeling of being able to influence what happens).
I think that players in general value the control of their character very much, and they often see it as a kind of 'overruling' of their 'rights' when the DM has predetermined the outcome of a situation, that the PCs are involved in, if it seems reasonable that the PCs could have affected the outcome.
This doesn't mean that the players wouldn't necessarily put their PCs in tough situations or deliberately make poor decisions the make things more interesting. But they important factor here is that the players feel that they themselves have made that choice.
Different groups play in different ways (the 'start-scene'-approach sounds interesting - haven't encountered it in such an explicit form before), but as I see it, it is important (in most groups at least), to leave PC control to the players (or have their consent on taking over some of that control, if such an approach is preferred).
But all a matter of taste - and expectations - of course :-)
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8 months ago ::
Oct 04, 2012 - 8:07AM
#137
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Damnit, time to go reevaluate my life.
Because you don't want to sell us death sticks.
You made me laugh
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8 months ago ::
Oct 05, 2012 - 3:29PM
#138
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Date Joined:
Jun 12, 2009
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Damnit, time to go reevaluate my life.
Because you don't want to sell us death sticks.
 
We summoned a devil once. All we used was the D&D books, too. It was pretty kwazy.
God of Arrested Development and Intelligence
Resident Left Hand of Stalin and Banana Stand Grandstander
Pie-Cooling-On-A-Windowsill of the House of Trolls
In the morning HK'll be sober but you'll still be a meatbag.
I know I misspell "Danke" in my posts. It's an inside joke.
"Ten cents gets you nuts." -George Michael
Spoiler:
Show
''Being president is like running a cemetery: you've got a lot of people under you and nobody's listening.''
—Bill Clinton
You are not a moral man. There are not enough middle fingers in the world for you.
Why do I get a silly PG-13 man giggle
going everytime I see Fist Of The Forest ?
Actually, Santa just didn't like you. However, you weren't on the Naughty List, so he had to give you something "better" than coal.
I'd take coal. Heating your house is expesive, and engery cost arn't going down.
Mabey if i beat enough homeless people, i won't have to be cold this year.
"Heroes"...I wish I had those. I remember in my first-ever campaign one PC went around shootin all the unconscious baddies in the head to gain Dark Side Points...
Whaaaaaat?!??
Wow...way to waste perfectly good potential slaves.
Er...no wait I mean..uh...something not evil!
(Quotes screwed up on the next one, won't give the poster's name. It's in the Best Lines thread on the D&D forum)
First, an experience from a game I played in a few years back. Our DM didn't like 3.5 as a whole but liked parts of it. So he hands us a big ass rules packet for his modified FR campaign, complete with quotes from important NPC's on the front. I can't remember most of the HRs, just that some how gods like Cyric and Bhaal existed at the same time, despite the obvious problems there. In the end the game became a problem more because of the railroading than the HRs, but it ended with this classic line, after our ranger tried to disarm the strange woman following us WITH HIS BOW: DM: You just killed (insert random noble sounding name here) JP: Was she important? Jack: Dude, she's quoted on the front of the rules packet!
"Why in the wide,wide, world of all things irrational would I help you?
-Daniel Jackson
"Fun will now commence."
-Seven of Nine
"Excellent."
-Mr. Burns.
Whey is a crotch.
Cut the last encounter on your way out after dealing with the Darth. He's the BBEG. Treat him as such. Play up that Darth Revan is THAT much of a badarse. When the shuttle landed, I had no less than 13 JEDI MASTERS step off the shuttle. The PCs were slack-jawed. After the meetup with Bastila (as she's carrying Revan's body), only TWO jedi masters remained with her. Let me tell you, the player whining about not getting to fight Revan himself shut up pretty quickly when he saw that.
There's so much you can do with insanity, especially when it has alot of resources.
1. Cleric cast protection from fire on Tank.
2. Tank goes in and get surrounded by enemies.
3. Wizard cast fireball and blows them up.
4. ???
5. Profit
I go by the saying," If it ain't friendly fire then it's not working."
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8 months ago ::
Oct 05, 2012 - 3:50PM
#139
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To answer the OP...whenever they have made a bad decision or a series of choices that would logically lead to a tough situation. It is what it is.
In my first session of my current game a player contracting mummy rot. In my second session, the group bungled into a trap that caused a cave-in and got trapped in a crypt and then accidentally set off another trap that could well have been fatal. When they hit the third clear trap they wisely and efficiently reduced it to a non-threat with intelligent gameplay.
Since then they've been in a few hairy spots (we're only on session 5 or 6) including battling a rather nasty Wyvern and have been continuously having a blast. Heck, they even have an orc minion (they used to have 4...then 3...then 2...) and just made friends with a group of hobgoblin adventurers.
I'm on a journey of enlightenment, learning and self-improvement. A journey towards mastery. A journey that will never end.
If you challenge me, prepare to be challenged. If you have something to offer as a fellow student, I will accept it. If you call yourself a master, prepare to be humbled. If you seek me, look to the path. I will be traveling it. #SuperDungeonMasterIITurbo
My blog and stuff http://dmingtowin.blogspot.com/
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8 months ago ::
Oct 08, 2012 - 3:00PM
#140
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Yeah, I'm the kind of player who will put his character in a bad situation to see how it works out. I enjoy the drama and having my guy get beat up a little bit.
This took a little training in my younger years, but between trusting in my DM(s) and just generally enjoying a good screw-up, I've come to love the misfortune and adversity. After all, therein lies the purpose of roleplaying.
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