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8 months ago ::
Sep 26, 2012 - 6:56PM
#31
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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EE doesn't do damage, it can't be admixtured.
Technically, that is incorrect.
The only prerequisites for Arcane Admixture are "11th level" and "any arcane class". For the benefit of the feat, you can choose a power that doesn't deal any damage -- the feat just won't have any effect in that case.
Didn't say anythign about prerequisites, I said it can't be admixtured.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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8 months ago ::
Sep 26, 2012 - 8:13PM
#32
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Date Joined:
May 12, 2009
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Even if Elemental Escalation would deal no damage, i'd say it still can be admixtured and gain the associated keyword, say thunder for exemple, simply because Arcane Admixture says the power gain the keyword without necessarly needing to deal damage. And there could still be benefits for using an elemental power for exemple how thunder power benefit from Solid Sound.
Yan
Montréal, Canada
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8 months ago ::
Sep 27, 2012 - 4:16AM
#33
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Date Joined:
Jul 22, 2008
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Even if Elemental Escalation would deal no damage, i'd say it still can be admixtured and gain the associated keyword, say thunder for exemple, simply because Arcane Admixture says the power gain the keyword without necessarly needing to deal damage.
Yes, I agree. If you take Arcane Admixture and select a power that doesn't deal damage, the power will still gain the keyword (as noted in the feat), even though there will be no functional change in the power.
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8 months ago ::
Sep 27, 2012 - 6:30AM
#34
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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Even if Elemental Escalation would deal no damage, i'd say it still can be admixtured and gain the associated keyword, say thunder for exemple, simply because Arcane Admixture says the power gain the keyword without necessarly needing to deal damage.
And there could still be benefits for using an elemental power for exemple how thunder power benefit from Solid Sound.
Yes, damage type keywords on powers that don't deal damage can and do interact with effects like Solid Sound, that's not what I'm saying.
What I'm saying is that attempting to admix Thunder into Elemental Escalation wouldn't allow the attack to gain the Thunder keyword, even if you assume that you can admix EE in the first place.
The Thunder keyword on EE would gain you the benefit of Solid Sound, but it wouldn't gain you the benefit of Mark of Storm.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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8 months ago ::
Sep 27, 2012 - 12:56PM
#35
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Date Joined:
Feb 23, 2012
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Even if Elemental Escalation would deal no damage, i'd say it still can be admixtured and gain the associated keyword, say thunder for exemple, simply because Arcane Admixture says the power gain the keyword without necessarly needing to deal damage.
And there could still be benefits for using an elemental power for exemple how thunder power benefit from Solid Sound.
Yes, damage type keywords on powers that don't deal damage can and do interact with effects like Solid Sound, that's not what I'm saying.
What I'm saying is that attempting to admix Thunder into Elemental Escalation wouldn't allow the attack to gain the Thunder keyword, even if you assume that you can admix EE in the first place.
The Thunder keyword on EE would gain you the benefit of Solid Sound, but it wouldn't gain you the benefit of Mark of Storm.
So the extra damage, which now has thunder added as a damage type, would not qualify for mark of storm even though you "hit with a power that deals thunder/lightning?"
You stated that the original power does the damage. I completely agree. However, the extra damage from elemental escalation does have a damage type, and specfically has a damage keyword which is "varies", which is explicitly stated as being the same as the original power. Arcane admixture would add another type to that because it says it does. So the extra damage now has the original type in additon too the type from arcane admixture.
There is another arcane encounter attack power that deals extra damage and has a damage keyword. Echoing weapon. Would you say that cannot be affected by arcane admixture as well?
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8 months ago ::
Sep 27, 2012 - 1:28PM
#36
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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No, because adding the Thunder keyword to Elemental Escalation doesn't change the damage, because EE doesn't deal damage.
Yes, echoing weapon cannot be admixed either. Because admixture doesn't actually do anything if the power doesn't deal damage.
You can't admix Hypnotism, for the same reason. Same situation. That the effect that the power is doing ends up in another power dealing damage is irrelevant - the power that you are attempting to admix doesn't do any damage.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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8 months ago ::
Sep 27, 2012 - 1:42PM
#37
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Date Joined:
May 12, 2009
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Yes, echoing weapon cannot be admixed either. Because admixture doesn't actually do anything if the power doesn't deal damage.
No you can Arcane Admixture ANY arcane powers attack or utility and doing so always do something.
It doesn't matter if the power doesn't do damage. It will gain the keyword regardless. You can even admixture Majestic Word if you want.
Yan
Montréal, Canada
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8 months ago ::
Sep 27, 2012 - 1:44PM
#38
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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Yes, echoing weapon cannot be admixed either. Because admixture doesn't actually do anything if the power doesn't deal damage.
No you can Arcane Admixture ANY arcane powers attack or utility and doing so always do something.
It doesn't matter if the power doesn't do damage. It will gain the keyword regardless.
But gaining that keyword doesn't mean that the power that is gaining extra damage from the admixed power also gains that keyword, or that the damage type of that extra damage changes.
Example:
I'm a level 1 fire elementalist. RETH! RETH! RETH!
I take Admixture, and apply it to EE as you suggest, adding Thunder.
When I use Elemental Bolt, and also use EE on that, my damage on a hit is 1d12+1d10+1d6 fire damage. There is no thunder damage.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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8 months ago ::
Sep 27, 2012 - 2:00PM
#39
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Date Joined:
May 12, 2009
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That is another question, we must first settle that any arcane power can be admixtured and gain the associated keyword. The rest will depend if you think extra damage powers are powers that have a damage type or not. I say its irrevelant if this extra damage is dealt by the extra damage power or the damaging attack power. Its about dealing a damage type, not dealing damage. So the real question is: Is an extra damage power deals a damage type ? If yes, it can now deal an additional damage type in addition to its normal damage type. I'd say a power that deal extra fire damage is a power that deals a damage type. And so Arcane Admixture can have it deal an additional damage type in addition to its fire damage type Arcane Admixture: Choose one arcane power that you know, and choose acid, cold, fire, lightning, or thunder. The power now deals that damage type in addition to its normal damage type and gains that keyword.
Yan
Montréal, Canada
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8 months ago ::
Sep 27, 2012 - 2:00PM
#40
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Date Joined:
Feb 23, 2012
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But gaining that keyword doesn't mean that the power that is gaining extra damage from the admixed power also gains that keyword, or that the damage type of that extra damage changes.
Example:
I'm a level 1 fire elementalist. RETH! RETH! RETH!
I take Admixture, and apply it to EE as you suggest, adding Thunder.
When I use Elemental Bolt, and also use EE on that, my damage on a hit is 1d12+1d10+1d6 fire damage. There is no thunder damage.
Ok. First sentence is wrong or gloves of eldritch admixture and mindbite scorn would not had acid/cold/fire and psychic damage respectively to the powers you add warlock's curse to. Warlock's curse is extra damage that is untyped. You are using a power to add a damage keyword to extra damage. According to your ruling, you cannot add damage keywords to extra damage because they do no damage. So you just broke gloves of eldritch admixture.
Your example doesn't work because you cannot take arcane admixture at L1. EE deals fire damage because that is what the power says it does. Arcane admixture adds a damage type to a type the power already does. That is all the feat does. So in the example you gave, assuming you could take it at L1, you would be doing 1d12(fire)+1d6(fire)+1d10(fire/thunder, from EE which also has the thunder keyword).
Arcane admixture adds a damage type to an arcane power that has a damage type because that is what the feat says it does. It says nothing about the power needing to deal damage. Because it does not say it needs to deal damage then it does not. The feat does what it says.
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