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10 months ago ::
Sep 24, 2012 - 4:19PM
#11
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Date Joined:
Feb 18, 2010
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I like the idea, but I think you will end up rolling a fistful of die quite often and that can really slow things down. What if we something based on Con Score and Hit Die and maybe level.
This is just an idea but maybe something like level X spell rolls a d20+10+Spell Level and if that is greater than the enemy's Con Score + HD (and/or level) then it has full effect. Then diminished effect for under that. Change the numbers around to fit but you get the idea of the system.
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10 months ago ::
Sep 24, 2012 - 4:25PM
#12
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As I wrote in the other thread, this doesn't alter the basic probl;em -- the caster is playing the "save or suck" while the fighter plays "deplete the hp". If the spell inflicted damage regardless of whether you beat the creature's current hp, at least all the PCs would be on the same page.
But I think lots of people would balk at that, as they did in 4e.
If you put a lesser effect on the save or die effects, the PCs are all on the same page.
If sleep gives a few penalties, hold person immobilizes and slay living deals damage if you don't beat the hit point threshold, all your PCs are on the same page.
If you reduce the Hit Point threshold so that you can affect "normal" critters of your level +2/3, then you have a small chance of affecting elites of your level but the chances are reduces drastically. For instance, if hold person only deals 5d6 "virtual damage", you affect most critters of your level with a 65% chance (is the accuracy 65%, I didn't check), and against an elite level 3, your opponent needs to both fail a save and you need to roll over 25 on 5d6. That's a very small chance. Usually, save or die spells are not worth the gamble*, but if there's a lesser effect, giving it a try is fun. When it works, great story, if it fails, you're still contributing to the fight in a lesser way.
You probably can adjust the "virtual damage" to affect elites of your level with a "reasonable" 40% chance. This would drop fairly rapidely as the monsters increase in level which is exactly what you do. Seriously, if Slay Living works 65% of the time on a critter that is already going to die in one round anyways, who cares...
*This is what made AD&D a little annoying. You had all these cool spells with zero chance of success.
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10 months ago ::
Sep 24, 2012 - 4:29PM
#13
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I like the idea, but I think you will end up rolling a fistful of die quite often and that can really slow things down. What if we something based on Con Score and Hit Die and maybe level.
This is just an idea but maybe something like level X spell rolls a d20+10+Spell Level and if that is greater than the enemy's Con Score + HD (and/or level) then it has full effect. Then diminished effect for under that. Change the numbers around to fit but you get the idea of the system.
You need more than one die if you want to have a bell curve. d20 would be too swingy. You need a whole bunch of dice for the mechanics to work (probably 5-8), otherwise, you might as well give your opponent advantage on the save.
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10 months ago ::
Sep 24, 2012 - 6:01PM
#14
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Date Joined:
Apr 23, 2009
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As I wrote in the other thread, this doesn't alter the basic probl;em -- the caster is playing the "save or suck" while the fighter plays "deplete the hp". If the spell inflicted damage regardless of whether you beat the creature's current hp, at least all the PCs would be on the same page.
But I think lots of people would balk at that, as they did in 4e.
I've always felt that save or die type spells should not be effective against level appropriate enemies. They should be used to dominate the lower levels. So a death spell can wipe out a room of mooks. Hit point limits can make this kind of stuff possible so long as it's max and not current. In fact I'd be ok with it being level instead of hit points but thats another angle. It's fine with me though if a spell does static damage in some cases too. I just occasionally like the possibility of taking no damage if you save.
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10 months ago ::
Sep 25, 2012 - 11:08AM
#15
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Date Joined:
Sep 11, 2008
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So maybe it could be determined by the spell itself? Maybe something like this:
- If the spell is seen as attacking the creatures will/mind/soul then it is MAX HP. (Charm, Turn undead, Fear)
- If the spell is attacking the physical body that wears down more quickly in combat it could be CURRENT HP. (Hold person, Ghoul touch, Ray of enfeeblement)
If this would be acceptable, what category would you see sleep falling into? I like to think that as the body wears down that sleep is resisted less because sleep is what the body wants to do. But I think the spell clearly effects the mind, so I am not sure. Maybe this isn't even how you think these spells work?
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10 months ago ::
Sep 25, 2012 - 11:10AM
#16
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Date Joined:
Apr 10, 2009
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So maybe it could be determined by the spell itself? Maybe something like this:
- If the spell is seen as attacking the creatures will/mind/soul then it is MAX HP. (Charm, Turn undead, Fear)
- If the spell is attacking the physical body that wears down more quickly in combat it could be CURRENT HP. (Hold person, Ghoul touch, Ray of enfeeblement)
If this would be acceptable, what category would you see sleep falling into? I like to think that as the body wears down that sleep is resisted less because sleep is what the body wants to do. But I think the spell clearly effects the mind, so I am not sure. Maybe this isn't even how you think these spells work?
Sleep can be interpreted as attacking either the mind or the body. You can be either physcially or mentally fatigued.
In your scheme it would be better interpreted as attacking the body.
Carl
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