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9 months ago ::
Sep 24, 2012 - 10:04AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Sep 28, 2009
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I never liked Turn Undead. It is a now-pointless relic, like alignment, and clerics only being able to wield blunt weapons for some reason. I don't have a problem with it existing, I just have a problem with it being a core class feature. It doesn't make sense for most clerics to have it in a major way, and it ties in too much with alignment, which I think should be a VERY optional rule.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 24, 2012 - 10:12AM
#2
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Date Joined:
Sep 11, 2012
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It's okay as a spell, but I would prefer having it as an optional feature. Tie it into a domain or something. I do agree that every cleric shouldn't have it though.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 24, 2012 - 10:18AM
#3
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Put both Turn Undead and Rebuke Undead as domain powers of domains where it fits.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 24, 2012 - 10:18AM
#4
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In my games I try to give Clerics some different options for their Channel Divinity equivalents. I don’t like that all Clerics are tied to a Life vs Undeath mechanic. To clarify, I really like the alignment system, but I don’t understand how ‘Good’ means anti-undead and ‘Evil’ means master of undead. I like it as a spell, and I would also be okay if it became a feature of Channel Divinity depending on your domain or deity. I don’t want it to be a distinguishing class feature.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 24, 2012 - 10:48AM
#5
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My issue with Turn Undead as a basic power is that its value is highly dependent on the adventure or campaign. In an urban / low magic / fae-oriented campaign you basically have a worthless power being factored into your class balance, while in a more post-destruction / gothic / tomb-oriented one it is perhaps over-usefull as something you can just fire off without draining other resources.
As a spell its value compared to other spell resources can shift depending on the situation.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 24, 2012 - 10:51AM
#6
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In 3.5 we tied the channel divinity/turn undead feature into all kinds of things depending on the context. Sort of like a cleric themed prestigitation with less control and more power.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 24, 2012 - 1:47PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Apr 23, 2009
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My issue with Turn Undead as a basic power is that its value is highly dependent on the adventure or campaign. In an urban / low magic / fae-oriented campaign you basically have a worthless power being factored into your class balance, while in a more post-destruction / gothic / tomb-oriented one it is perhaps over-usefull as something you can just fire off without draining other resources.
As a spell its value compared to other spell resources can shift depending on the situation.
+1
This is perhaps the best argument I've heard for making it a spell.
I will say though that as DM I've always factored in the undead to some reasonable degree. They are just iconic D&D to me. So it's not a major issue for me.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 24, 2012 - 2:01PM
#8
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Date Joined:
Feb 19, 2009
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I think it should be a spell, and that it should be an even better spell than it currently is.
BUT
I don't think it should be "always assumed" to be prepared. You should have to choose it at the opprortunity cost of a different spell.
(Remember, all clerics retain some anti-undead capability just through "Channel Divinity)
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9 months ago ::
Sep 24, 2012 - 2:41PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Apr 10, 2009
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I think it should be a spell, and that it should be an even better spell than it currently is.
BUT
I don't think it should be "always assumed" to be prepared. You should have to choose it at the opprortunity cost of a different spell.
(Remember, all clerics retain some anti-undead capability just through "Channel Divinity)
Well - I think it should be weakened from what it already is. Specifically - I think it should be modified as follows:
If the undead creature fails it's save, it cannot remain adjacent to the cleric (as at present) and must spend its normal move getting as far away from the cleric as possible. If the creature cannot move directly away from the caster e.g. is cornered), it may move around the caster to escape his presence in another direction (a clarification). If the undead creature starts its turn within 20' of the cleric, it cannot attack, cast spells or approach the caster (as is true now, but restricted to within 20'). Such creatures will typically use their move to leave the vicinity of the cleric. If the undead creature is not within 20' of the caster it cannot move towards the caster, but it can otherwise attack or cast spells (a weakening of the spell). If such spells target the cleric or the cleric's space they are made at a disadvantage.
I would also, however, change it to have a duration rather than a sustain.
I also suggested making similar changes to the spell Cause Fear (or, as it could be called, "Turn Living").
Carl
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9 months ago ::
Sep 24, 2012 - 6:01PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Jun 22, 2010
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A domain option seems the best route, that way certain cleric can affect undead, others may focus on elementals, etc. It would be best to have it influence an opposing domain. That will give an alignment based feel, without actually including alignments, except as a supplement, or module, to further expand domains later on. Perhaps you can choose a couple effects, like sanctuary, fear, or just inflicting damage.
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