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9 months ago ::
Sep 22, 2012 - 4:15PM
#1
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Date Joined:
May 29, 2012
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Having done both playtests numerous times, my bi-monthly group of middle aged dungeoneers have decided to quit the playtest altogether and look for greener pastures. Next stop, Dragon Age RPG. Why? Because we see the trend in the playtest to layer on more and more modifiers, rules, and tracking that the DM has to take care of. D&D has sowly turned it's DMs into accountants. While there are some brilliant accountants who amaze with their abilities, the average Joe gets bogged down. This is the death of D&D.
D&D is built upon a conceit. That conceit is that if a person plays a game 187 times exactly the same way with the same rules, he will become bored and no longer play the game. He needs something more to keep him interested. He needs more adventures, more spells, more powers, more choices, more anything. This is wrong. Ask anybody who plays a lot of chess this question; "Are you so bored with chess now that you need new rules or powers to keep it interesting for you?" for anybody but Magnus Carlsen, the answer is, "No!" Ask any Monoopoly player. Ask any Scrabble player. This is where all RPG games go wrong. The idea that the first time you enter a dungeon as a level 1 character is not as fun as entering your 459th dungeon as a level 1 character is abusrd. It feels the same. That's why we continue playing. It's not for the added stuff. It's for the fun of getting involved in an adventure.
Let's do an Einstein thought experiment! Let's make Level 1 equal to Level 20. That means you get all powers, spells, dice, etc, you would get if you played up to the Epic level in 4e right off the bat as a level 1 character. Is this any more fun than being a level one character and defeating a level one opponent? No, of course not. For one thing, simply "boning up" on level 20 would be equivalent to a doctoral thesis in D&D.
If WOTC want to make an impact with Next, eliminate levels altoghether. Good dungeon masters, like professional screen-writers can adapt and make endlessly incredible adventures using simple level one characters. That's where everybody starts, and that's what everybody loves.
It's like watching the 257th episode of CSI-SVU. Fans never get tired of the simple formula. Chess players never tire of the format. It is the same for any successfull game. Get a clue.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 22, 2012 - 4:41PM
#2
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Good bye. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 22, 2012 - 4:49PM
#3
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Cool story, bro.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 22, 2012 - 4:54PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Apr 12, 2008
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I really expected the "sky is falling" threads to come a little bit later in the playtest process. Oh well.
In fond memory of Mark "Wrecan" Monack.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 22, 2012 - 4:54PM
#5
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Date Joined:
Apr 10, 2009
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Having done both playtests numerous times, my bi-monthly group of middle aged dungeoneers have decided to quit the playtest altogether and look for greener pastures. Next stop, Dragon Age RPG. Why? Because we see the trend in the playtest to layer on more and more modifiers, rules, and tracking that the DM has to take care of. D&D has sowly turned it's DMs into accountants. While there are some brilliant accountants who amaze with their abilities, the average Joe gets bogged down. This is the death of D&D.
Although I agree with your premise (that they are starting down a trend to more and more modifiers, etc) - I disagree with your approach to the problem.
But if you lack the inclination to argue for what you think the game should be (aside from the no level stuff - that just won't happen) - enjoy your greener pastures.
Carl
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9 months ago ::
Sep 22, 2012 - 5:07PM
#6
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Date Joined:
May 29, 2012
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Listen, you whippersnappers, Knee jerking solves nothing. What's wrong with a level 1 game with endless adventures? Nothing. What's wrong with level 5 modifiers and spell books? Everything...especially if youu're a DM.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 22, 2012 - 5:10PM
#7
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Listen, you whippersnappers, Knee jerking solves nothing. What's wrong with a level 1 game with endless adventures? Nothing. What's wrong with level 5 modifiers and spell books? Everything...especially if youu're a DM.
Thought you were moving on. Why are you still here? What you want to play is clearly not dungeons and dragons, so go find the game you do want to play. I recommend something free form.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 22, 2012 - 5:12PM
#8
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Listen, you whippersnappers, Knee jerking solves nothing. What's wrong with a level 1 game with endless adventures? Nothing. What's wrong with level 5 modifiers and spell books? Everything...especially if youu're a DM.
Love that he's calling someone 40 years old (me) a whippersnapper.
And how 'right' or 'wrong' something is, in a gaming environment, is purely subjective. You don't like it, then it's wrong for you, and you're free to spend your time, money, and energy on something else. It may not be wrong for someone else, whose style differs from yours.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 22, 2012 - 5:13PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Apr 10, 2009
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Listen, you whippersnappers, Knee jerking solves nothing. What's wrong with a level 1 game with endless adventures? Nothing. What's wrong with level 5 modifiers and spell books? Everything...especially if youu're a DM.
I play Traveller - there is nothing wrong with a zero-advancement mechanics game. And you probably can make a fanstastic Fanatasy RPG with no advancement mechanics. And you don't need advancement to tell a great story.
It just isn't D&D. And making D&D like that would be 'the end of D&D'.
(And you young 40-something's are whippersnappers.......)
Carl
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9 months ago ::
Sep 22, 2012 - 5:19PM
#10
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Date Joined:
May 23, 2007
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Edit: I am slow and 8 other comments were posted while I was typing this.
I'm not sure what your argument is here, you are kind of all over the place. I am making the assumption that you and your group have played D&D for quite some time. You don't state that, but it is kind of implied.
1. You claim that the playtests are adding more and more mechanical complexity requiring DMs to be "accountants". This is a valid viewpoint and probably worthy of an entire thread, however that is as far as you go with it.
2. You claim that D&D is killing itself by constantly adding content to the game, that people should be content to play with the same basic content endlessly. Now some will be and some won't. I agree that with a good group you can play with the same base content and have countless different adventures in inumerable different worlds.
3. You completely negate argument 2 by claiming that you are going to move on to a new game with new content, rules, etc. If you are content with D&D (whatever version you happen to enjoy the most) then why not just stick with it. Wizards is not adding any new content to versions 1-3.5 and within a few years won't be adding any content to 4th . Pick your favorite edition, pick a subset of the available content, and you have your static game. You can play as many times as you like and you don't have to worry about any new content interferring with your game. I haven't looked into Dragon Age RPG ever, but I am fairly certain that it is going to have the same issues of constantly adding new content.
4. You advocate the removal of all progression. This is the first time I have heard anyone arguing for this. At first I thought you were advocating a leveless system, but then upon rereading your post you actually want to remove all progression from the game. This is another topic that would be worthy of a whole thread. I very strongly disagree with you that this is a good idea but would be interested in a discussion on the topi. Regardless, if that is what you want there is nothing preventing you from removing experience and levels and just playing at lvl 1. Having not looked into Dragon Age I would be surprised if the game offered no progression.
5. The claim that people don't tire of simple formulas is a gross overgeneralization. Overuse of the same formula is the reason I no longer read Clive Cussler, the reason I no longer enjoy most TV shows, and the reason I constantly buy new games most of which are relatively unkown to the general public.
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