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9 months ago ::
Sep 23, 2012 - 10:41AM
#41
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Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2008
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One of the things I loved about 4e, which I fear may be lost, is how the system really rewarded teams that worked together. The controller set up the battlefield, the leader kept the allioes in the fray, the defender used the battlefield to hamper foes, and the striker used it to kill them
To recapture that, it's not enough that one player can build a controllery character -- if none of the others are built to synergize with them.
I fear a return to the days where it was every man for himself.
I honest have never experienced this in any edition of Dungeons and Dragons. I have always in every edition seen the benefits of teamwork and seen destruction of teams that could not work together. In every edition I have experienced this.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 23, 2012 - 11:03AM
#42
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Date Joined:
Apr 12, 2008
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One of the things I loved about 4e, which I fear may be lost, is how the system really rewarded teams that worked together. The controller set up the battlefield, the leader kept the allioes in the fray, the defender used the battlefield to hamper foes, and the striker used it to kill them
To recapture that, it's not enough that one player can build a controllery character -- if none of the others are built to synergize with them.
I fear a return to the days where it was every man for himself.
I honest have never experienced this in any edition of Dungeons and Dragons. I have always in every edition seen the benefits of teamwork and seen destruction of teams that could not work together. In every edition I have experienced this.
I don't pretend to speak for Wrecan, but I think what he was going for is:
Pre 4E, characters could compliment each other. The party could work together wonderfully, and teamwork made things happen. Likewise, if the team did not work together, it could fall apart. However, 4E was built around the entire idea of team synergy. Pre 4E teams could work together. 4E teams did work together by design. People had to actually try to build characters in 4E that did not compliment each other in order to make the synergy level drop. Pre 4E, non-compatible teammates were a fairly common occurrence. He liked that party-based design of 4E, and fears it is going away with 5E.
In fond memory of Mark "Wrecan" Monack.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 23, 2012 - 1:11PM
#43
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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Role specialization and teams functioning more efficiently within them is rather realistic. "A team is not a bunch of people with job titles, but a congregation of individuals, each of whom has a role which is understood by other members. Members of a team seek out certain roles and they perform most effectively in the ones that are most natural to them." Dr. R. M. Belbin
No Lone Wolf (with Mary Sue just being very successful at it) and Hopeless Hanna do not count as roles.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 23, 2012 - 3:55PM
#44
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Role specialization and teams functioning more efficiently within them is rather realistic.
"A team is not a bunch of people with job titles, but a congregation of individuals, each of whom has a role which is understood by other members. Members of a team seek out certain roles and they perform most effectively in the ones that are most natural to them."
Dr. R. M. Belbin
No Lone Wolf (with Mary Sue just being very successful at it) and Hopeless Hanna do not count as roles.
They do in previous editions...
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9 months ago ::
Sep 23, 2012 - 4:03PM
#45
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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Role specialization and teams functioning more efficiently within them is rather realistic.
"A team is not a bunch of people with job titles, but a congregation of individuals, each of whom has a role which is understood by other members. Members of a team seek out certain roles and they perform most effectively in the ones that are most natural to them."
Dr. R. M. Belbin
No Lone Wolf (with Mary Sue just being very successful at it) and Hopeless Hanna do not count as roles.
They do in previous editions...
Actually 80 percent of lone wolf stories are specifically about the character NOT remaining a lone wolf but rather being a rogue who discovers the value of the team.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 23, 2012 - 6:18PM
#46
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Role specialization and teams functioning more efficiently within them is rather realistic.
The problem I have with 4e's attempt to focus on team work, is that it just borked combat completely - turning it into an hour long slog and a bureaucratic nightmare (who has marked who, who is slowed, dazed or stunned, who is giving who bonuses or was that last round?)
Good riddance, I say.
Pro DnD Member of the Axis of Awesome Fighters: Using socks to kill monsters since 2012 DnD Next: Now with more then 4 minutes of Roleplay per gaming hour Spoiler:
Show
"If you can't make an interesting human fighter, then you aren't ready to play anything else yet" Edymnion
"The idea of resting up between encounters to fill-up on hit points and spells struck my meta-gaming nine-year-old as a distinct possibility. "Are you mad?" says my seven-year-old "This place is full of monsters!" "jamesgrahamuk
All characters have a story. Spoiler:
Show
Sometimes that story is short and sometimes it is long. They can be tragic, comic or absurd. Some teach. Some are just to fill the empty spaces in our lives. Rarely it is a transcendent fugue only half remembered but wondered at. And frequently: "it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." -William Shakespeare
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9 months ago ::
Sep 23, 2012 - 6:23PM
#47
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Date Joined:
Oct 26, 2004
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How was that different from 3e?
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9 months ago ::
Sep 23, 2012 - 6:33PM
#48
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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Role specialization and teams functioning more efficiently within them is rather realistic.
The problem I have with 4e's attempt to focus on team work, is that it just borked combat completely - turning it into an hour long slog and a bureaucratic nightmare (who has marked who, who is slowed, dazed or stunned, who is giving who bonuses or was that last round?)
As opposed to a few round craps game with who rolled the die highest? OR instead of I hits it with my sword full attack and the does the wizard have an insta-fix handy where everybody else might as well just watch?
Shrug to me its a damn cool hour of interesting choices and interactions... Love tactical combat.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 23, 2012 - 7:28PM
#49
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Shrug to me its a damn cool hour of interesting choices and interactions... Love tactical combat.
I prefer my turns to come up more often then every 15 minutes - which is why I am liking the DnD Next combat so far (except for the monster stats - they seem to be armed with wet bus tickets)
Pro DnD Member of the Axis of Awesome Fighters: Using socks to kill monsters since 2012 DnD Next: Now with more then 4 minutes of Roleplay per gaming hour Spoiler:
Show
"If you can't make an interesting human fighter, then you aren't ready to play anything else yet" Edymnion
"The idea of resting up between encounters to fill-up on hit points and spells struck my meta-gaming nine-year-old as a distinct possibility. "Are you mad?" says my seven-year-old "This place is full of monsters!" "jamesgrahamuk
All characters have a story. Spoiler:
Show
Sometimes that story is short and sometimes it is long. They can be tragic, comic or absurd. Some teach. Some are just to fill the empty spaces in our lives. Rarely it is a transcendent fugue only half remembered but wondered at. And frequently: "it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." -William Shakespeare
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9 months ago ::
Sep 23, 2012 - 7:30PM
#50
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Date Joined:
May 19, 2011
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Shrug to me its a damn cool hour of interesting choices and interactions... Love tactical combat.
I prefer my turns to come up more often then every 15 minutes - which is why I am liking the DnD Next combat so far (except for the monster stats - they seem to be armed with wet bus tickets)
Again, how in the world are people getting multi-hour long combats? Do you guys really take that long with your turns?
Hell, our latest Level 21 game, we had a major fight that was over in about 1 hour, maybe 20 minutes over tops.
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