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9 months ago ::
Sep 20, 2012 - 7:59PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Jul 26, 2008
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I was wondering what CharOp community's thoughts were for the best At-Will (combo) to use use in conjunction with White Lotus Master Riposte feat?
Its benefit reads: "If you hit an enemy with an arcane at-will attack power and the enemy then attacks you before the start of your next turn, you can use an immediate reaction to repeat the at-will attack against that enemy alone, but only if the enemy is not marked by you."
Off the top of my head, the ones that come to mind include:
- Hexblade At-Wills
- Eldritch Strike
- Beast Switch
- Dragonfrost with Reaper's Touch (Shadar-kai)
Dragonfrost with Reaper's Touch can be particulary versatile since it is easier to trigger, as a range 10 melee basic attack (the other At-Wills are melee only).
Various ranged arcane at-wills with staff expertise (or other means to not provoke OA's) can be quite effective, too. Maybe even better.
Having mentioned these options, I consider a top choice in my books to be...
Chaos Bolt with Sorcerous Blade Channeling. It provides the versatilie targeting of Reaper's Touch Dragonfrost, with an Effect line for chaos sorcerors that can grant a potential 'bounce' with the luck of an even die roll.
Given the WLMR errata, can a WLMR chaos bolt still bounce? Are any bursts/blasts still worth spamming with WLMR (or are they over-shadowed by single target At-Wills)? What's your favorite WLMR at-will combo?
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9 months ago ::
Sep 20, 2012 - 8:10PM
#2
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I was wondering what CharOp community's thoughts were for the best At-Will (combo) to use use in conjunction with White Lotus Master Riposte feat?
Its benefit reads: "If you hit an enemy with an arcane at-will attack power and the enemy then attacks you before the start of your next turn, you can use an immediate reaction to repeat the at-will attack against that enemy alone, but only if the enemy is not marked by you."
Off the top of my head, the one's that come to mind include:
- Hexblade At-Wills
- Eldritch Strike
- Beast Switch
- Dragonfrost with Reaper's Touch (Shadar-kai)
Dragonfrost with Reaper's Touch can be particulary versatile since it is easier to trigger, as a range 10 melee basic attack (the other At-Wills are melee only).
Various ranged arcane at-wills with staff expertise (or other means to not provoke OA's) can be quite effective, too. Maybe even better.
Having mentioned these options, I consider a top choice in my books to be...
Chaos Bolt with Sorcerous Blade Channeling. It provides the versatilie targeting of Reaper's Touch Dragonfrost, with an Effect line for chaos sorcerors that can grants a potential 'bounce' with the luck of an even die roll.
Given the WLMR errata, can a WLMR chaos bolt still bounce? Are any bursts/blasts still worth spamming with WLMR (or are they over-shadowed by single target At-Wills)? What's your favorite WLMR at-will combo?
thinking beyond the power itself.. you are looking for a class which would encourage the monster to attack you in the first place without marking it. Whats the point of having the awesome combo if you never get to use it?
I wonder if there was some way to get this going on a esentials berserker considering their defending mechanic doesnt actually mark...
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9 months ago ::
Sep 20, 2012 - 8:25PM
#3
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Booming blade + mark of storms.
Knights/cavaliers/beserkers do a good job making a catch-22. Any immobilize or prone will likey work. Persuit avengers to a lesser degree.
Half-elfs can snag one with a different class.
Hmm.. half-elf persuit avenger with flail expertise, booming blade, and mark of storms should be pretty nasty.
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F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 20, 2012 - 8:33PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Feb 23, 2012
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Don't forget hellish rebuke. You hit him, he hits you, takes damage, then you hit him again.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 20, 2012 - 8:44PM
#5
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Date Joined:
Aug 31, 2009
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You really have to widen the context, because so many other elements can effect what you're doing. I've never really seen builds using the "target versatility" of something like Dragonfrost because it's just too easy for the target to attack someone else.
Generally the best use is to put the monster in a situation where it's forced to attack you so you can hit him again. Your Dragonfrost example is a great way of discouraging things from attacking you, but that's not really something we can measure and it's not the kind of proactive damage dealing that gets encounters over quicker.
Personally I like Eldritch Strike because there's about a million and one things you can do with it, but yeah Booming Blade makes a pretty great lose-lose situation for the target.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 20, 2012 - 8:52PM
#6
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Considering Chaos Bolt gets to repeatedly attack the primary target anyway (no clause in the secondary attack saying that it has to be a different target from the primary target, which is clearly within 5 of itself), it's not really an issue unless you kill the target and get to continue bouncing. The only thing keeping Chaos Bolt from being an auto-pick for Wild Sorcs is that probability is against you, having to hit and roll even and then hit again gives you only an 18%-24.5% (Hit on 8 - Hit on 6) which then degrades to 5.4%-8.6% to hit with a 3rd bounce, which at mid-paragon is only 7.5-10.5 bonus damage per use, at 2 attacks/round it still falls short compared to RBA enabling.
I personally like Ensorcelled Blade for WLMR use, because if they're attacking you, then they're going to take your Spell Source damage again (6 to 8 in Paragon, 10 to 12 in Epic) which also dips into your Extra Damage sources (notably Vuln), on top of WLR and the WLMR, only slightly behind Chaos Bolt. If you're dealing with a multi-attacker, it now faces your Spell Source damage twice (and WLR once or twice, unclear if it stacks) if it attacks you again. Add a leader having granted a MBA, and you add on another damage isntance against your attacker.
(Now wondering why I don't just play Permafrost with my Sorc)
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection. My Guides
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9 months ago ::
Sep 20, 2012 - 8:54PM
#7
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Chaos Bolt specifies that "You can attack a creature only once with a single use of this power."
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 20, 2012 - 8:56PM
#8
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^That. It has always been like that.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 20, 2012 - 9:06PM
#9
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You're right, I knew there was a reason I never bothered calculating a 2nd bounce for my DPR.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection. My Guides
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9 months ago ::
Sep 20, 2012 - 10:43PM
#10
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Chaos bolt with WLMR is still pretty good, though. So long as the enemies are not surrounding the group and you are at the frontline, one of the enemies is very likely to include you in an attack on their turn. As to whether or not it bounces, by RAW it should. However, since WLMR has been specifically nerfed to prevent the granted attack from attacking multiple enemies, none of the DM's I've played with so far have granted me the bounce, which I suppose is fair enough.
Furthermore, on a pure sorc, I kinda like ensorcellated blade + WLMR + repel charge (if you can spare that last feat). When you get charged, you get to attack the enemy twice.
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