|
9 months ago ::
Sep 19, 2012 - 9:08AM
#1
|
|
|
While the idea of skill mastery is good, it's just eliminates too many challenges.
Reducing it to 5 still gives rogues a fairly big edge and let's them acomplish easy tasks without risk, but doesn't stop them from auto-succeding in harder tasks.
You can still increase it to 10 at high levels. As an epic rogue never failing a hard task is fine.
guides
Show
my builds
Show
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
|
|
|
|
9 months ago ::
Sep 19, 2012 - 9:19AM
#2
|
|
|
Just dump the boring Skill mastery alltogether and replace with this:
"As long as a you do not have disadvantage on a skill check, you have advantage."
Change Knack to:
"Twice per day, you can give yourself advantage, or ignore disadvantage on any on check or attack.
|
|
|
|
9 months ago ::
Sep 19, 2012 - 12:12PM
#3
|
Date Joined:
Jan 30, 2012
|
I like skill mastery as is other than the fact it works for ALL the rogue's skills. I could see a level 1 rogue having skill mastery in 1 skill, perhaps stealth. Then at perhaps level 3 getting it in remove traps. Then at perhaps level 5 getting it in open locks.
It just seems unreasonable that ALL level 1 rogues have skill mastery in ALL skills. If that truly is the case, then I will be tempted to dip into rogue with every class I play. They've said they'll make dipping not work as well, but you'd probably get full skill mastery of a level 1 rogue in a few levels of multiclass rogue. I'd want to do that for every character I play, as I hate failing at skills.
|
|
|
|
9 months ago ::
Sep 19, 2012 - 12:24PM
#4
|
Date Joined:
Apr 12, 2004
|
While the idea of skill mastery is good, it's just eliminates too many challenges.
Reducing it to 5 still gives rogues a fairly big edge and let's them acomplish easy tasks without risk, but doesn't stop them from auto-succeding in harder tasks.
You can still increase it to 10 at high levels. As an epic rogue never failing a hard task is fine.
I like this idea too.
|
|
|
|
9 months ago ::
Sep 19, 2012 - 12:27PM
#5
|
Date Joined:
Nov 16, 2009
|
sounds good to me- Definately better than it is now. I honestly would like to see rogues get something that doesn't tie to skills in case you want to "go old school" and not use skills.
|
|
|
|
9 months ago ::
Sep 19, 2012 - 12:32PM
#6
|
Date Joined:
Apr 10, 2009
|
I"m still lobbying for my preferred fix to Skill Mastery:
The problems:
1) Skill mastery makes rogues succeed, 100%, all the time on Hard Skill Checks - with no need to roll. This is undesirable and also not as much fun for some players.
2) Thief rogues, to use their sneak attack, have to go into a cycle of hide - attack - hide - attack which isn't much fun in combat. Spending half of your actions to hide isn't good design - even if the damage math works out.
The solution:
1) Skill mastery still allows the rogue to make skill checks as if their ability score mod was +3 regardless of their actual ability score.
2) Rogues have advantage on all skill checks made outside of combat. It you want a lock picked - the rogue usually succeed.
3) In combat, if a rogue takes an action which is not an attack, the rogue (being the consumate skill monkey) can also attempt to use one of his skills as part of that action (similar to how a Fighter can Jab). Although they would still only be attacking every other round (part of the math and why I think the thug is broken), on their 'off rounds' they would not be limited to just hiding. They would be able to take other actions - they might load a crossbow, they might toss a handful of caltrops, they might loot a corpse, they might pick a lock - while at the same time also going into hiding (assuming proper concealment, of course).
I think that this accomplishes the goal of keeping rogues as the ultimate skill monkeys - no one is going to beat them at skills out of the game (exploration pillar) while at the same time they are able to use their skills in ways that no other class can equal - but also which make it more fun and interesting to play a rogue because you can always be doing something instead of taking every other round off to hide (or giving up your sneak attack).
Carl
|
|
|
|
9 months ago ::
Sep 19, 2012 - 12:33PM
#7
|
Date Joined:
Apr 10, 2009
|
sounds good to me- Definately better than it is now. I honestly would like to see rogues get something that doesn't tie to skills in case you want to "go old school" and not use skills.
No matter how old school you get - rogues always had skills.
The 'innovation' was to let other classes have them as well.
Carl
|
|
|
|
9 months ago ::
Sep 19, 2012 - 12:33PM
#8
|
Date Joined:
Feb 19, 2009
|
Lets look at what they are trying to do. This is from the playtest DM rules. "Hard (DC 16):
Hard tasks include any effort that is beyond the capabilities of most people without aid or exceptional ability. Such tasks include battering down a heavy wooden door that is locked, swimming in stormy waters, ascending a sheer surface with scant handholds, balancing on a very narrow ledge, or picking a typical lock."
So a rogue with skill mastery , taking advantage of the +3 for being trained and the +3 for "doesn't matter what my stat is I get a +3", will get a 16 attempting to pick a lock. Which means they will always succeed at picking a typical lock.
THAT is the baseline they are going for. That thief type checks will always be "Hard" difficulty, and that the Rogue-ey thief should always succeed at them because they are just that good. If you start to tinker with the skill mastery number, you negate what they are trying to accomplish.
|
|
|
|
9 months ago ::
Sep 19, 2012 - 12:58PM
#9
|
Date Joined:
Apr 12, 2004
|
I reckon that we disagree with their baseline goal, then? I think that Hard checks should be pretty doable for a rogue, but I'd rather not see them be automatic successes.
|
|
|
|
9 months ago ::
Sep 19, 2012 - 1:07PM
#10
|
Date Joined:
Feb 19, 2009
|
"I reckon that we disagree with their baseline goal, then?"
Yep, and that is certainly a valid opinion. I just wanted to point out what they were trying to do, and that their numbers are chosen to support that. If you think their goal is bad, then it follows you will think the numbers are bad.
|
|
|
