...Okay, I WAS trying to think of how I might close the gap I see between Sharpshooter and Desperado, but the thread layout's gone and turned into hell for me...
I still don't see the problem with the differences. The Sharpshooter is accurate and damaging, yes, but it takes one attack to set up that accuracy and damage, and it can't change targets at will like a Ranger can. Compare the Desperado, who doesn't have quite as nice of a bonus, but it applies to every attack and against every target. It has more emphasis on the controller secondary.
Sharpshooters are great at taking out elites and solos, but a Desperado is better at dealing with groups of standard monsters.
Though, if the specific problem is that the Sharpshooter is overpowered, I could fall back to my original idea for the feature, where only single-target attacks work with High Noon. (As worded right now, the Called Out target just has to be one of the targets of any attack.)
EDIT: And if it does seem over powered, I'd like to know what specifically makes it overpowered. The Ranger has features that give it bonus damage and a bonus to hit: Prime Shot and Hunter's Quarry. Both of which have limitations built in. Likewise, the Sharpshooter has similar bonuses, but also has limitations: The attack it takes to setup the bonus.
Gunmage, a homebrew arcane striker. (Heroic Tier playtest ready.) GDocs link. (More up to date.)
Ranger gets those as two separate features, tho, and ALL rangers get them. In fact, that's a good idea: Take the hit bonus out of Sharpshooter, and give Prime Shot. As I pointed out before, my issue is that the one gets damage AND to-hit and the other doesn't; if you don't fix that, the one that gets to-hit will always be superior.
And yeah, you might want to change the wording back. Seems like you want that one to bring old-fashioned dueling to mind, right?
Ranger gets those as two separate features, tho, and ALL rangers get them. In fact, that's a good idea: Take the hit bonus out of Sharpshooter, and give Prime Shot. As I pointed out before, my issue is that the one gets damage AND to-hit and the other doesn't; if you don't fix that, the one that gets to-hit will always be superior.
Again, I'm having a hard time believing that. So unless you can come up with solid numbers to back up your claim... Because +1 to hit doesn't always compare to being able to ear apart three or four enemies in one shot. Quantity over quality, as it were.
Compare the accurate Exploit powers (+2 to hit, but lose your ability score modifier to damage) to Twin Strike (Lose your ability score modifier damage, but attack twice.)
And yeah, you might want to change the wording back. Seems like you want that one to bring old-fashioned dueling to mind, right?
That is correct. The builds are supposed to centered around one-on-one (Sharpshooter) and one-on-many (Desperado). Hence the focus on Desperado being able to dish out more damage to groups: A sharpshooter can take out the BBEG without much trouble, but can't effectively fight a horde of the BBEG's minions. The desperado can tear through a horde with ease, but isn't as adept at dealing with the BBEG.
Compare it to a western: The villain could kill a half dozen nameless good guys with no problem, but when it comes down to just the villain versus the hero, the hero always wins.
Gunmage, a homebrew arcane striker. (Heroic Tier playtest ready.) GDocs link. (More up to date.)
Ranger gets those as two separate features, tho, and ALL rangers get them. In fact, that's a good idea: Take the hit bonus out of Sharpshooter, and give Prime Shot. As I pointed out before, my issue is that the one gets damage AND to-hit and the other doesn't; if you don't fix that, the one that gets to-hit will always be superior.
Again, I'm having a hard time believing that. So unless you can come up with solid numbers to back up your claim... Because +1 to hit doesn't always compare to being able to ear apart three or four enemies in one shot. Quantity over quality, as it were.
Compare the accurate Exploit powers (+2 to hit, but lose your ability score modifier to damage) to Twin Strike (Lose your ability score modifier damage, but attack twice.)
First, check your errata, Careful Strike got the ability bonus to damage back, it's actually a pretty good second power to take after Twin Strike now.
Second, being able to tear apart three or four enemies in one shot doesn't mean much of crap when that one shot misses the mark. That's why +1 to-hit is worth so much more than +damage.
And from a somewhat more gamist perspective, the various Prime Shot feats that were ostensibly released for rangers are class-neutral, so giving your gunmage the Prime Shot class feature lets him have some more options without having to worry your brain over more than the class for a bit longer.
And yeah, you might want to change the wording back. Seems like you want that one to bring old-fashioned dueling to mind, right?
That is correct. The builds are supposed to centered around one-on-one (Sharpshooter) and one-on-many (Desperado). Hence the focus on Desperado being able to dish out more damage to groups: A sharpshooter can take out the BBEG without much trouble, but can't effectively fight a horde of the BBEG's minions. The desperado can tear through a horde with ease, but isn't as adept at dealing with the BBEG.
Compare it to a western: The villain could kill a half dozen nameless good guys with no problem, but when it comes down to just the villain versus the hero, the hero always wins.
I'm sorry to say I'm not really a fan of westerns. I could probably stumble my way to a few ideas that might fit some of the common tropes, but most of my exposure to gunslinging films has been either spy movie boring one-shot fights or gun kata.
But that's something I'll keep in mind for the future, then. In light of that, the other features are fine, but you may want to add more class skills if they're getting five trained? Classes generally have one plus twice the number of choices.
And also, a suggestion that might fit the flavor a bit better: Instead of higher baseline accuracy/damage (yes, I still think Prime Shot as a separate feature would be best), the Sharpshooter gets something that encourages him and/or his target to focus on each other. Maybe he gets the same baseline, but another damage bonus as long as he continues attacking the same target?
First, check your errata, Careful Strike got the ability bonus to damage back, it's actually a pretty good second power to take after Twin Strike now.
Ugh, errata. So hard to keep track of.
And from a somewhat more gamist perspective, the various Prime Shot feats that were ostensibly released for rangers are class-neutral, so giving your gunmage the Prime Shot class feature lets him have some more options without having to worry your brain over more than the class for a bit longer.
I'd just prefer an option other than Prime Shot. For one, I'd rather not just copy-and-paste stuff over if I can avoid it. For two, I'm afraid it might make the class seem too much like "Rangers... with guns!" Which is another reason I don't want to do a pure martial class, since that's about what it would wind up being.
I'm sorry to say I'm not really a fan of westerns. I could probably stumble my way to a few ideas that might fit some of the common tropes, but most of my exposure to gunslinging films has been either spy movie boring one-shot fights or gun kata.
Well, I'm not a huge fan, either. I just think they have a certain charm. Something that I think fits with D&D rather well: That discover, the challenges of taming the wilderness, one man fighting to bring law to a lawless land. All are themes that can be (and are) incorporated into D&D, and the fantasy genre as a whole. There's a reason I like the idea of "The western as modern fairy tale."
And yeah, spy movies are too boring. Gun kata would be better for a martial take, since it's supposedly nigh superhuman abilities attained from 'skill.' Or, to put it another way, "I do cool things because cool things are cool!" Which isn't bad, per se... But if I'm going to watch something cool for coolness sake, I'd prefer wuxia.
But that's something I'll keep in mind for the future, then. In light of that, the other features are fine, but you may want to add more class skills if they're getting five trained? Classes generally have one plus twice the number of choices.
Care to offer suggestions on what skills would fit?
And also, a suggestion that might fit the flavor a bit better: Instead of higher baseline accuracy/damage (yes, I still think Prime Shot as a separate feature would be best), the Sharpshooter gets something that encourages him and/or his target to focus on each other. Maybe he gets the same baseline, but another damage bonus as long as he continues attacking the same target?
That might work. Though I wonder if that might start edging into Defender territory... Hm, a dash of Defender might work, though, with the lawman route. I mean, not a full on Defender, just something that encourages monsters to ignore the Sharpshooter's allies.
Gunmage, a homebrew arcane striker. (Heroic Tier playtest ready.) GDocs link. (More up to date.)
...Okay, I feel sheepish. Just now totted up the skills, there's plenty there.
And for the Sharpshooter, I'm not saying the feature should drop marks (though, for comparison, barbarians get a few powers as well as a paragon path that do just that). A pseudo-mark like the avenger's Censure of Pursuit (triggered off of attacking someone else instead?) might work nicely, though.
On Prime Shot: Warlocks also have it, which is why I'm fine with pushing it for this one. What makes rangers tick, remember, is that they have Prime Shot AND Hunter's Quarry AND more attacks per turn than anyone really needs to have. Here, I'm suggesting Prime Shot as more of a placeholder (and, incidentally, fitting because the participants are rather close together in these duels), until I can think and suggest something less cookie-cutter... and on that note, perhaps just a flat +1 to-hit with firearms?
...Okay, I feel sheepish. Just now totted up the skills, there's plenty there.
Eh, no worries. You took the time to review it and I appreciate that.
And for the Sharpshooter, I'm not saying the feature should drop marks (though, for comparison, barbarians get a few powers as well as a paragon path that do just that). A pseudo-mark like the avenger's Censure of Pursuit (triggered off of attacking someone else instead?) might work nicely, though.
The Censure idea is interesting, but I'm not sure how to word it to make it work right.
On Prime Shot: Warlocks also have it, which is why I'm fine with pushing it for this one. What makes rangers tick, remember, is that they have Prime Shot AND Hunter's Quarry AND more attacks per turn than anyone really needs to have. Here, I'm suggesting Prime Shot as more of a placeholder (and, incidentally, fitting because the participants are rather close together in these duels), until I can think and suggest something less cookie-cutter... and on that note, perhaps just a flat +1 to-hit with firearms?
I had considered a flat +1 at one point, like the Rogue's weapon talent... Until I realized that the rogue gets a flat +1 only to weapons that are kind of terrible otherwise. Handcrossbows, slings, daggers? All have terrible damage. They're all Simple weapons, too, and are really only useful because the Rogue's powers flat out require them. A Rogue can't take weapon proficiency with a fullblade and still use their powers, while a Gunmage could pick up Kord's Cannon and still work just fine. That made me concerned about possible balance issues.
Prime Shot requires being the closest to the target, which makes a gun's range benefit less impressive... I'm not sure if that's good or bad.
I don't want apply an action tax for the +1 (such as move or minor action to gain it), since their weapons already have higher than normal action requirements just to reload. So... I don't know how to make different, but still effective.
Gunmage, a homebrew arcane striker. (Heroic Tier playtest ready.) GDocs link. (More up to date.)
When you attack, the enemy you attack is called out until the end of your next turn. If an enemy you have called out makes an attack that doesn't include you as a target, you gain a +2 bonus to damage on the next attack you make against that enemy before the end of your next turn. This bonus increases to +3 at 11th level and to +5 at 21st level.* A single enemy can only be called out by one gunmage at a time; if another gunmage calls him out, the first instance is cancelled.
*=Replace with whatever other effect feels appropriate.
When you attack, the enemy you attack is called out until the end of your next turn. If an enemy you have called out makes an attack that doesn't include you as a target, you gain a +2 bonus to damage on the next attack you make against that enemy before the end of your next turn. This bonus increases to +3 at 11th level and to +5 at 21st level.* A single enemy can only be called out by one gunmage at a time; if another gunmage calls him out, the first instance is cancelled.
*=Replace with whatever other effect feels appropriate.
As worded, wouldn't that affect multiple targets? It specifies that two gunmages can't call out the same target, but doesn't specify that one gunmage can only call out one target.
Gunmage, a homebrew arcane striker. (Heroic Tier playtest ready.) GDocs link. (More up to date.)
When you attack a single enemy, the enemy you attack is called out until the end of your next turn. If an enemy you have called out makes an attack that doesn't include you as a target, you gain a +2 bonus to damage on the next attack you make against that enemy before the end of your next turn. This bonus increases to +3 at 11th level and to +5 at 21st level.* A single enemy can only be called out by one gunmage at a time; if another gunmage calls him out, the first instance is cancelled.
*=Replace with whatever other effect feels appropriate.
As worded, wouldn't that affect multiple targets? It specifies that two gunmages can't call out the same target, but doesn't specify that one gunmage can only call out one target.
It's a start, at least? I was trying to write it in a way that doesn't make it a power a la Oath of Enmity. Possible fix is in bold text above.
