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9 months ago ::
Sep 18, 2012 - 10:02PM
#21
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Date Joined:
Aug 18, 2003
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Okay. so EA is a triggered free action, which acts as an IR unless it has to act as an II to function. Since you can wait until a hit or miss is resolved before choosing to use it, then it doesn't have to work as an II to function. So, in theory you can wait until the attack roll and damage has been dealt, since once the attack roll happens, IRs wait until the damage/effect step is resolved as well. So. . . . can you roll an attack, score a hit, roll minimum damage, and then decide that you dislike the result, reroll, TAKE A MISS if you roll it, and regain your use of Elven Accuracy with Sneaky Accuracy then? Since, Sneaky Accuracy says "Benefit: If you use your elven accuracy racial power to reroll an attack against an enemy granting you combat advantage and the second roll misses, you do not expend elven accuracy."
Frankly it's a silly argument. As a DM, I would limit this in the order of RAW limiting free actions during a turn. But, strictly as written it's like this
Roll an attack, dislike the roll
Use EA
Reroll the attack
>>IF HIT, then you hit and proceed as normal.
>>IF MISS, then Sneaky Accuracy kicks in, EA is not expended.
Since you just rolled an attacked that missed, then likely you dislike the result
Use EA
Reroll the attack
Repeat until the result of this Reroll is a Hit.
"Five million Cybermen, easy. One Doctor? NOW you're scared!" - Rose Tyler
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9 months ago ::
Sep 19, 2012 - 12:17AM
#22
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First of all, thank you for your answers!  I don 't want to use my "DM power" to limit my players but, I consider EA very similar to a "reliable" power. Maybe I am wrong but, I do not remember a power that let you roll repeatedly for an attack in the same turn until you hit. Do you?
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9 months ago ::
Sep 19, 2012 - 6:12AM
#23
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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Elven Accuracy's trigger is not only the attak roll you make but that you dislike it, an event that can happen after the miss.
Precisely. If you're going on the "dislike" thing, then I can now dislike the attack roll I made two years ago, and trigger Elven Accuracy, by this argument.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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9 months ago ::
Sep 19, 2012 - 6:13AM
#24
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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Since you can wait until a hit or miss is resolved before choosing to use it, then it doesn't have to work as an II to function.
Yes it does, because you're changing the result of hit or miss as per the new roll. That's what interrupts do.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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9 months ago ::
Sep 19, 2012 - 6:14AM
#25
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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It is actually very similar to Transposing Lunge, whose trigger is even more complex. It is an II that triggers off of "hits and takes damage." Now the hit has completely resolved by the time you get to the damage step, but it was FAQed to indicate that you can still invalidate the hit because you are interrupting the compound event "hit and takes damage." EE's trigger is roll and dislike the result. So Plague is being serious, in terms of RAW.
I hope you realize that this is exactly in accordance with my position that attacks are events.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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9 months ago ::
Sep 19, 2012 - 9:24AM
#26
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Date Joined:
Mar 28, 2010
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yeah i can't go with the argument that because it says dislike I can play the rest of my turn after I miss and then suddenly decide that I want to reroll that attack I disliked from earlier. That's just nonsense to me. That's not how it works, so me and Mand are agreeing there I think.
I also believe as Mand does that this is an II, that must be used during the hit phase, not afterwards. I also believe that the feat in question requires that the hit phase resolve itself in a miss meaning you can't go back afterwards and change the result with EA that is not expended.
The example of transposing lunge is also suspicious.
I also believe that every single step of everything you do, is an event. Using an attack roll is an event, so is using EA, using the feat to regain EA, missing, etc etc.. You can't go back with II to an earlier event in the chain. If you believe that then as Mand stated and as I stated earlier, you could go back in time or use EA during someone elses turn later to re-roll attack rolls that you suddenly decided you disliked the result of. Which makes no sense.
"Non nobis Domine Sed nomini tuo da gloriam" "I wish for death not because I want to die, but because I seek the war eternal"
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9 months ago ::
Sep 19, 2012 - 9:27AM
#27
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It is actually very similar to Transposing Lunge, whose trigger is even more complex. It is an II that triggers off of "hits and takes damage." Now the hit has completely resolved by the time you get to the damage step, but it was FAQed to indicate that you can still invalidate the hit because you are interrupting the compound event "hit and takes damage." EE's trigger is roll and dislike the result. So Plague is being serious, in terms of RAW.
I hope you realize that this is exactly in accordance with my position that attacks are events.
I hope you can read "compound event" and realize it isn't.
@Noctaem: Makes sense or not, it is what the rules say. The rules often don't make sense.
Moderated by
ORC_Opal
on Sep 19, 2012 - 10:18AM
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9 months ago ::
Sep 19, 2012 - 10:40AM
#28
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Date Joined:
Mar 28, 2010
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well I don't agree that it's what the rules say. Your reading would allow someone to come back to any attack roll at any point and time. This is not how II's with triggers work, the event that they use to trigger can't be 3 turns ago. I'm surprised you don't see how flawed that logic is. IMHO, your view is not RAW, and certainly not RAI. I also don't believe that you can chain EA the way you state it can be done. Regaining EA requires that the miss be resolved completely so you can regain it.
So agree to disagree. Either way we already gave the OP an option that everyone agrees on, limiting the amount of free actions the player can take during his turn.
"Non nobis Domine Sed nomini tuo da gloriam" "I wish for death not because I want to die, but because I seek the war eternal"
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9 months ago ::
Sep 19, 2012 - 10:51AM
#29
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Date Joined:
May 12, 2009
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Elven Accuracy's trigger is not only the attak roll you make but that you dislike it, an event that can happen after the miss.
Precisely. If you're going on the "dislike" thing, then I can now dislike the attack roll I made two years ago, and trigger Elven Accuracy, by this argument.
If it takes you two years to compare the attack roll to the target defense to determine if it hit or miss, your doing something wrong.
I see people using Elven Accuracy like this all the time. People roll, miss and decide to use Elven Accuracy to reroll.
Yan
Montréal, Canada
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9 months ago ::
Sep 19, 2012 - 10:53AM
#30
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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Elven Accuracy's trigger is not only the attak roll you make but that you dislike it, an event that can happen after the miss.
Precisely. If you're going on the "dislike" thing, then I can now dislike the attack roll I made two years ago, and trigger Elven Accuracy, by this argument.
If it takes you two years to compare the attack roll to the target defense to determine if it hit or miss, your doing something wrong.
I see people using Elven Accuracy like this all the time. People roll, miss and decide to use Elven Accuracy to reroll.
Something wrong, yes, but something in accordance to RAW as you would like me to believe it. That your argument leads to a situation beyond your credence is a problem with your argument, not mine.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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