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8 months ago  ::  Oct 24, 2012 - 1:31AM #81
Zathris
Date Joined: Nov 6, 2009
Posts: 4,243
What do you mean no synergy? Defender is Melee Controller, both classes are also easily Striker Secondary, and using weapliments has been a thing for ages. Several builds already exist, though I'm sure it could be re-Op'd, Genasi Thunderglaive; can be played as a single target striker, blaster, or fairly sticky defender with decent catch-22. You can even ditch the glaive part and have beast switch as your MBA via War Wizard of Cormyr.

A Controller alternative: Thunder Hammer and Mountain Thunder add to the already impressive saving throw penalty selection available, combine with Dizzying Mace
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating.  Actually, devastating is too light a word.  Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25
Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul;
Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind;
Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire;
The MECH warrior reaches perfection.

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8 months ago  ::  Oct 24, 2012 - 2:05PM #82
awaken_D_M_golem
Date Joined: Dec 22, 2006
Posts: 2,660

Oct 24, 2012 -- 12:29AM, RayjeEliwan wrote:

Here's a stupid idea I had. (It's stupid.)

The Fighter is ludicrously over-supported. The Wizard is almost as badly so. They should hybrid in a spectacularly poor fashion, as they have next to zero synergy. I would like to see some kind of hybrid Wizard|Fighter that both takes advantage of their ridiculous mounds of support and doesn't just ignore one side's tricks and powers, resulting in a playable character. So many builds benefit from MCing Fighter just to pick up their toys (I have a friggin' Invoker who gets a huge boost out of it. An Invoker!), and there's a smaller but still extant set of builds who do the same thing with Wizard (though they've cracked down a bit on that with some nerfs) . . . let's see how well those toys can prop up an otherwise miserable hybrid.

I have no idea where to start. Maybe go genasi for Elemental Empowerment to make STR/INT not a total waste?



Core : (it was the summer of '08 ... blah)
Nerf Me Baby One More Time
Doppelganger Wizard m Fighter for pre-nerf Rain Of Blows,
Swordmaster, Lich No Phylactery Ritual (hence Doppelganger)
lots of contorsions to get into Deadly Trickster,
was the most amount of recharge possible, early on.
Later AV1 adds in pre-nerf Stunlock goodies.
m Psi anything for Godmind instead of Deadly Trickster.
Time Stop with Sw20 and Gm26 = the record quickest nerf too.
Time Stop needed the nerf, but the other two got it ... boooo.

The support can make up for the nerfs.

my kitty avatar's Royale Lineage ---> http://static.neatorama.com/images/2009-09/original-keyboard-cats.jpg

new helpful bg/mmx refugee locale ---> http://www.ruleofcool.com/smf/index.php/topic,632.0.html
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8 months ago  ::  Oct 24, 2012 - 6:43PM #83
Jay_Ibero_911
Date Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 5,235
I don't know if it warrants an entry, but the question comes up often enough that it might be worth a post: The highest possible max HP total.

This would be a level 30 Goliath Warden/MC Awakened Potential/Goliath Juggernaut/Indomitable Champion with toughness, psionic toughness, and a max level brooch of vitality, with auspicious birth to base HP off of strength. 

Spoiler: Show

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
level 30
Goliath, Warden, Goliath Juggernaut, Indomitable Champion
Guardian Might: Earthstrength
Epic Heroism: Epic Heroism (Strength)
Epic Heroism: Epic Heroism (Constitution)
Background: Auspicious Birth (Auspicious Birth Benefit)


FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 30, Con 24, Dex 12, Int 16, Wis 12, Cha 10.


STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 18, Con 13, Dex 10, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 8.



AC: 32 Fort: 43 Reflex: 35 Will: 36
HP: 324 Surges: 16 Surge Value: 81


TRAINED SKILLS
Nature +23, Arcana +23


UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +16, Bluff +15, Diplomacy +15, Dungeoneering +16, Endurance +22, Heal +16, History +18, Insight +16, Intimidate +15, Perception +16, Religion +18, Stealth +16, Streetwise +15, Thievery +16, Athletics +27


FEATS
Level 1: Toughness
Level 21: Awakened Potential: Battlemind
Level 22: Psionic Toughness


POWERS


ITEMS
Brooch of Vitality +6
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======



And you can otherwise be a generic warden. You could even do wildblood instead, and sacrifice 2 points from strength to sure up defenses at the cost of 2 hp off that total and everything else strength based. 


 
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8 months ago  ::  Oct 24, 2012 - 7:57PM #84
mellored
Date Joined: Jul 8, 2008
Posts: 19,522

Oct 24, 2012 -- 6:43PM, Jay_Ibero_911 wrote:

I don't know if it warrants an entry, but the question comes up often enough that it might be worth a post: The highest possible max HP total. 


Sure, that's what this thread is all about.

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my builds Show

F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter.  With some warlord stuff.  Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch   Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1.  If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation.  5 of these will end anything.  Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways.  Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit.  Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones.  Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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8 months ago  ::  Oct 25, 2012 - 5:58AM #85
Mommy_was_an_Orc
Date Joined: Apr 25, 2002
Posts: 4,994

Oct 24, 2012 -- 12:29AM, RayjeEliwan wrote:

Here's a stupid idea I had. (It's stupid.)

The Fighter is ludicrously over-supported. The Wizard is almost as badly so. They should hybrid in a spectacularly poor fashion, as they have next to zero synergy. I would like to see some kind of hybrid Wizard|Fighter that both takes advantage of their ridiculous mounds of support and doesn't just ignore one side's tricks and powers, resulting in a playable character. So many builds benefit from MCing Fighter just to pick up their toys (I have a friggin' Invoker who gets a huge boost out of it. An Invoker!), and there's a smaller but still extant set of builds who do the same thing with Wizard (though they've cracked down a bit on that with some nerfs) . . . let's see how well those toys can prop up an otherwise miserable hybrid.

I have no idea where to start. Maybe go genasi for Elemental Empowerment to make STR/INT not a total waste?




When one feat gets you a base 19 AC and Shield is a level 2 utility, I wouldn't exactly call that a lack of synergy. The major issue is as always the need for a sustainable mark and Cha doesn't exactly seem to be a premium for such a build. Sentinel Marshal, MC Warden, Kirre's Roar, and of course Come and Get It are likely the best ways for such a build to get started. At 16th, Tactical Warpriest solves a lot of problems.

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8 months ago  ::  Oct 25, 2012 - 6:15AM #86
svendj
Date Joined: Apr 14, 2010
Posts: 2,052

Oct 24, 2012 -- 1:31AM, Zathris wrote:

What do you mean no synergy? Defender is Melee Controller, both classes are also easily Striker Secondary, and using weapliments has been a thing for ages. Several builds already exist, though I'm sure it could be re-Op'd, Genasi Thunderglaive; can be played as a single target striker, blaster, or fairly sticky defender with decent catch-22. You can even ditch the glaive part and have beast switch as your MBA via War Wizard of Cormyr.

A Controller alternative: Thunder Hammer and Mountain Thunder add to the already impressive saving throw penalty selection available, combine with Dizzying Mace



Don't forget Hindering Shield and Draconic Arrogance for added sillyness when pushing enemies with Wizard powers.

This also reminds me of the famous charging Wizard MC Fighter.

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8 months ago  ::  Oct 25, 2012 - 8:59AM #87
GelatinousOctahedron
Date Joined: Jun 30, 2008
Posts: 5,740
Most surges possible for a PC?  Bonus points for also having highest possible surge value.

And mellored, you misspelled my "swamthing" build.
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8 months ago  ::  Oct 25, 2012 - 9:02AM #88
Alcestis
Date Joined: Oct 7, 2009
Posts: 7,915

Oct 25, 2012 -- 8:59AM, GelatinousOctahedron wrote:

Most surges possible for a PC?  Bonus points for also having highest possible surge value.

And mellored, you misspelled my "swamthing" build.


Dragonborn Paladin who maxes Con. Only a handful of things that add surges and you can get all of them, and being a Dragonborn gives you +con to surge value and some other related goodies.

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8 months ago  ::  Oct 25, 2012 - 9:07AM #89
rjsilverthorn
Date Joined: Feb 19, 2006
Posts: 1,447
Didn't we do some of these in the "What hasn't been optimized" thread? Which I think was also Mellored's.
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8 months ago  ::  Oct 25, 2012 - 9:38AM #90
mellored
Date Joined: Jul 8, 2008
Posts: 19,522

Oct 25, 2012 -- 9:07AM, rjsilverthorn wrote:

Didn't we do some of these in the "What hasn't been optimized" thread? Which I think was also Mellored's.


I've moved that stuff to this thread. 

guides Show
my builds Show

F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter.  With some warlord stuff.  Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch   Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1.  If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation.  5 of these will end anything.  Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways.  Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit.  Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones.  Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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