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9 months ago ::
Sep 22, 2012 - 2:06PM
#11
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I love how the OP asks:
What are some of your most inexplicable uses of otherwise mundane powers to bring down DnD juggernauts?!
And all everyone does is rant about how "Force Ladder" doesn't work like that.
I just find that telling regarding the game.
Was that part really neccesary?
Actually yes.
There's this big nostalgic initiative going right now with 5e/D&D Next, over capturing this old feel to the game. Some of the freeform creativity and rules lite play that many people feel was lost with 4e.
The OP wrote a brief bit about how he and his group did that with 4e and all everyone did was tell him that's not how the power was supposed to work.
I really wonder how much of the problems that led to 5e/Next have to do with the game and how much has to do with the players. Just food for thought.
Okay, cool thing I did in my last 4e game. The DM was doing this kidnapping story since the first session, with one of the player's characters being hunted by the BBEG. While infiltrating their base for an expected exchange (the PC's sister for her) we used the disguise self martial practice to do a double bluff. We changed the another character to look like the PC (but in a bad disguise) and made PC look like the other character. Then my changeling also pretended to be the PC, so there were two characters that looked like the potential victim but neither were really her.
It made my DM's head explode.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 22, 2012 - 2:30PM
#12
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Date Joined:
May 19, 2011
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Actually yes.
There's this big nostalgic initiative going right now with 5e/D&D Next, over capturing this old feel to the game. Some of the freeform creativity and rules lite play that many people feel was lost with 4e.
I, and many people, have no problem being creative in 4e. Sounds like a problem with those people.
I really wonder how much of the problems that led to 5e/Next have to do with the game and how much has to do with the players. Just food for thought.
The only "problem" was, Hasbro wants them to make more money, so they needed a new edition. Trying to incite an edition war won't prove anything.
And keep in mind this is the 4e GD forum, trying to prove a point for 5e is not relevant to the forum.
Anyway, to stay on topic, I didn't beat him like this(for reasons you'll see in a second), but I was able to pull a hilariously effective bluff against a god.
We pretty much had 2/3 MacGuffins to power a machine we needed to stop the god, said god had the third piece and was going to use it to power the machine for his own uses. The god was above level 30, we were level 10 by this point. We had a plan to steal the 3rd piece away from him, but we needed a distraction. My Changeling then shapeshifts...into the god himself.
He then explains to said god, that he(the CHangeling) was really a fragment of the god himself that he planted inside the party to help, then the god erased his own memory of the plan to ensure he wouldn't give away. I procced to rolla 20 on my Bluff, against the 1 on the god's Insight. My Bluff was high enough where it barely beat the god's Insight and he totally believed it.(You have to understand, this was a homebrew god who was channeling the power of pure Chaos, he said it sounded exactly like something he'd do).
This did fall flat when he noticed our pickpocketer stealing the piece from him, so I attacked him to distract him again...rolling a Nat 20, nailing him right in the face with an icicle. he of course got pissed and took a swing at those in front of him, rolling a Nat 1 to hit me.
The rest was fairly boring in comparison, the distraction agve is time to use the machine, buff ourselves up to his level(level 30), and beat the crap out him.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 22, 2012 - 6:02PM
#13
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- Forum Guide
- Hero Craftsman Gold Medalist
- Master Dungeon Master
Date Joined:
Jun 23, 2005
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Actually yes.
There's this big nostalgic initiative going right now with 5e/D&D Next, over capturing this old feel to the game. Some of the freeform creativity and rules lite play that many people feel was lost with 4e.
I, and many people, have no problem being creative in 4e. Sounds like a problem with those people.
But it wasn't a problem with "these people". They were creative and the DM alowed something that was not technically allowed under the rules. We shoulf all be applauding that. They had fun. They did something cool. That's what this game should be about.
They're enjoying the edition we love. We should be slapping them on the back and congratulating htem ona job well done.
But for some reason, we're sniping at them, telling them they are playing wrong, calling them uncreative. The first three responses (and the fifth response) on this thread had nothing positive to say. Only the fourth one -- after criticizing them for playing loose with the rules -- congratulated them on having fun.
And when The Jester appropriately pointed that out you jumped on him... and in the process made the insulting claim that the OP's group has trouble being creative!
What the hell is wrong with us?! We're eating our own young. I love 4e, but I hate what these forums and this fanbase has become. It's embarrassing. It's self-defeating. And it's not the first time I've seen this sort of deplorable behavior.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 22, 2012 - 6:12PM
#14
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So, if the rules can be conveniently ignored whenever, what's the point of having them?
Sorry, creativity is fine, provided it's still a legal maneuver. If the thing you're trying to do is physically incapable of performing the task you've put it to, that's not really creative. Breaking the rules while being 'creative' is called cheating. Unintentional in the OP's case, but illegal is illegal.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 22, 2012 - 6:33PM
#15
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Date Joined:
Oct 25, 2009
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Rules Lawyering, sucking the fun out of D&D since 1974! I play by the rules 99% of the time, they are the backbone of the game, but I believe the best part of a tabletop RPG is the freedom to deviate from the rules when the situation warrants it. This is what sets games like D&D apart from videogames. Sometimes a DM sees the players having a bit of fun and just lets them go for it, bending or even breaking the rules. Let the players have their moment in the sun and feel like superheroes. Then you don't feel so bad about bringing the hammer down on the them the next time 
Want to know more about the history of D&D, especially how to play older editions of the game? Check out Crazy Monkey's "Tour through the editions":
http://community.wizards.com/crazymonkey/go/forum/view/133793/225799/Asylum_Play-by-Post
The current edition is BECMI, the most popular form of Basic D&D and the adventure is the classic Red Box quest to kill Bargle the evil magic user. Check it out, learn about the games roots, and enjoy the story as it unfolds.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 22, 2012 - 6:35PM
#16
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when the situation warrants it.
This is the operative term. If someone wants to tighten a screw, hitting it with a hammer isn't going to help.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 22, 2012 - 8:17PM
#17
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Date Joined:
May 19, 2011
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What the hell is wrong with us?! We're eating our own young. I love 4e, but I hate what these forums and this fanbase has become. It's embarrassing. It's self-defeating. And it's not the first time I've seen this sort of deplorable behavior.
Wow, chill out, I was just telling him he shouldn't come in here and insult 4e players on a 4e part of the baord to make a point for 5e.
And where am I insulting the OP? I'm saying if people are unable to be creative in 4th and are crying about it, it's their problem. I never said anything about the OP.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 23, 2012 - 6:06AM
#18
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- Forum Guide
- Hero Craftsman Gold Medalist
- Master Dungeon Master
Date Joined:
Jun 23, 2005
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So, if the rules can be conveniently ignored whenever, what's the point of having them?
They are framework for play. A framework that can be freely ignored whenever the group decides it would me more fun to ignore. Because the game is about fun first and about following the rules because they are rules way farther down the line.
The attitude that creativity can only be congratulated if it is in the context of the rules rather than in the context of the story is a pernicious hateful condescending couterproductivepoisonous attitude that shold be killed with fire.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 24, 2012 - 8:36PM
#19
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Date Joined:
Jun 13, 2006
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I think that's hilarious - I love it when goofy powers/creative uses win the day.
Of course, as a DM, I do the same thing. You trap my beholder in a pit, that beholder starts remaking the encounter with 10' x 10' disintegration rays until it becomes a tunnel fight.
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7 months ago ::
Oct 25, 2012 - 5:49PM
#20
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Date Joined:
Sep 17, 2012
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I once had a level one wizard survive an encounter with a beholder (it should be noted that I did not defeat or kill it but simply incapacitated long enough to escape) by ambushing it with a wool blanket soaked in lamp oil. Waited till it floated through the door, tossed the blanket over it and ignited. The blanket turned into a melting, flaming mess and pinned it's eyestalks long enough for me to scramble from the room and hide down a deep dark hole. Much relief and satisfaction even though I never killed it.
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