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Oct 8, 2012 -- 4:48PM, Garthanos wrote:

Oct 8, 2012 -- 1:24PM, lokiare wrote:

Oct 8, 2012 -- 5:53AM, kadim wrote:

Oct 8, 2012 -- 1:56AM, MedicArwen wrote:

Yep, the advantage/desavantage with 2d20 is more violent than just a +2/-2 when it's easy to touch. When its hard to touch its only give +1? Thanks for give more math.

So if i understand this:
-> an hard monster with good chance to hit player (and be dangerous!) will get +5 vs PC and get more harder?
-> a easy monster with no real chance to hit player will only get +1 vs PC and this change nothing?

For player side:
- if monster is hard to touch, getting advantage change nothing
- if monster is easy to touch, +5 non really usefull to get advantage, just get the fight easyer.
I have the impression that the only thing usefull is to not let monster get advantage when its have a good chance to touch the player.

wtf?

Well you're talking about relative probability. Advantage basically doubles your chances of success in an unmodified DC 20 situation, because your chance of success increases from 5% to 10%. So a 100% increase in the chance of success. The +1 does the same, but the thing you have to remember is a player will throw away a modifier like a +2 without much thought at higher level, but they won't throw away advantage.

To put it another way, the thing that makes advantage cool is it makes the players really care about it. In a system with levels and scaling numbers, +/-2 becomes academic.

For example, if a character is faced with letting an enemy get away (safer) or clambering over the pile of corpses uphill to go after them (hazardous), the subsequent action - be it an attack roll or grab or whatever - will suffer disadvantage because they're on uneven ground and their opponent is uphill. A character facing a -2 to the roll will more likely eat the penalty to do it but a disadvantage of taking the lower of two rolls really makes people stop to think about it.

Basically gives the perception of risk without actually increasing the risk. That's why I like it.

Yes, but mathematically its only useful if your target die roll number is under 18 which means its a +2 or higher. So yeah if you need a 20 to hit getting advantage is almost worthless, especially if it costs you something like the Rogues sneak attack feature. If they need a 20 to hit they have to give up a round of attacks for a +5% chance to hit.

On the flip side if the character needs a 9-11 then advantage just about assures they will hit where before they had a 50% chance now they have a 75% chance to hit. So the idea is only expend a resource to get advantage if you need to roll a 16 or less, if you need to roll more than that its probably not worth giving up a resource...

What if you can spend advantage to gain another effect (In wrecans cool weapon properties thread I believe that is the idea being punched around).

In that case you would flip it. You'd keep advantage on an 17 or below, and trade it for something else on an 18 or higher...

Oct 8, 2012 -- 6:09PM, Garthanos wrote:

Oct 8, 2012 -- 5:59PM, lokiare wrote:

 

In that case you would flip it. You'd keep advantage on an 17 or below, and trade it for something else on an 18 or higher...

always useful either for itself or what can be gained from it... a good thing.

The stumbling block we're finding with weapon properties is we have to lay down some really significant abilities to make it a choice because players perceive advantage very differently than they do a flat bonus or minus. It's generally more valuable to them.

So what's generally happened in that thread (go check it out if you haven't, it's really good stuff) is someone will throw an idea on the table and generally someone says "yes but you're giving advantage up, so the mod needs to be more like a 3 or 4 to make it a choice." Course the other challenge is not making it the same as advantage.

Some neat things are coming out of this mechanic.