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9 months ago ::
Sep 16, 2012 - 4:17PM
#1
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I got the reprints of the 1st Ed Adnd books and I've been interested in some of the ideas that were in the old DMG and wouldn't mind seeing something like this as an option in 4E and 5E. Mind you, AD&D had lots of horrible ideas like level and ability caps for women and dfferent races or alignment languages.
Still all the charts and tables for different parts of the world are really cool fluff. As often as I have seen PCs choose to live in squalor to avoid paying for living expenses, giving them a chance for disease for doing so could encourage them to roleplay what their character would want to do. This isn't gygaxian naturalism, instead, its a game within a game you can play when designing the fluff.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 16, 2012 - 4:27PM
#2
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Date Joined:
Jan 24, 2006
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I totally agree, Rethgryn.
Some of the stuff in the old AD&D DMG is purely awesome. I never even actually played that edition much, but I still love some of the great 'fluff' as you call it. I wholly support what you're suggesting.
Unfortunately, 4e wasn't my favourite edition (sorry guys, no offense meant!). I loved the innovation in 4e though.
So, yes, I think it's a good idea. Thanks for posting it up!
Best Regards,
David L. Dostaler
David L. Dostaler Author, Challenger RPG (free)
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9 months ago ::
Sep 16, 2012 - 4:32PM
#3
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Date Joined:
Oct 26, 2004
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Well hard to say, most of the stuff I liked from old editions seemed to be done better and more inteligently in 4e, which is why I liked it so much. I mean sure 4e had problems (like the wacko feats for multiclassing, it could have worked had they been a bit smarter with those), and some real derp ups (like making monk attack powers not use weapon die, what the flumph were they smoking?), but for the most part it did most things I cared about better than previous editions I had played (3e and 3.5).
I guess i'd like to see the concept of a PRestige class re-instated as somethign that you can qualify for via multiple routes instead of all hospitalers having to be paladins. You wouldn't even need to bring back multi-classing, you can just use something similar to the paragon path system but have less class specific requirements.
That and half-dragons, D-born are nice and all, but sometimes you just wanna be able to call mom for a ride home.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 16, 2012 - 4:38PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Aug 28, 2005
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Big fan of 4E here. I will generally play previous editions without complaint, but I prefer 4E and will only DM 4E.
One thing that I didn't like about 4E was that it didn't feel finished right out of the box, by which I mean that there were some basic character concepts that were not available right from the get-go which made options feel much more limited. A really big example for me is the Summoner. Reflavoring could take care of a lot of it, I guess, but I wish it didn't need to.
I also actually liked how previous editions had some classes share their power list, because I couldn't think of any good reason that a Wizard shouldn't be able to learn Burning Spray or a Sorcerer shouldn't be able to learn Thunder-Wave. Plus, sharing power lists made classes easier to home-brew.
Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TMSpeaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
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9 months ago ::
Sep 16, 2012 - 4:45PM
#5
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I like how...
Well, you know what, most of the things I liked in the older editions over 4th edition largely stem from publication decisions instead of actual rule changes. For example, I like how 2e had a number of supported campaign settings and even how 3e took two campaign settings and delved deeply into them. I had high hopes for 4e plan for giving two or three books for a campaign and then a new campaign every year, but the actual implementation of it was, well, not very good.
That plan would only really work out if the edition was around for a long time (like 8 years or so, I guess), and then to spend one of those years on a sub-section of Forgotten Realms felt kind of like cheating. Even though the actual book was kind of nice, I would still like to have seen either a new place or an older place revisted, like Dragonlance or Ravenloft or one of the other high fantasy settings from 2e.
I also liked how 3e (and 2e) had books dedicated to new classes with completely new mechanics, like the Tome of Battle with its new maneuver mechanic, or the Book of Incarnum, or the Tome of Magic (three new types of magic!). No matter how good AEDU might have been in general, I did like seeing the wider variety of mechanics in 3e (although I can imagine it is much harder to balance, which is important to me).
Mechanically though, I think the only thing I really do miss from the earlier editions is choice in assigning skill points. I like being able to choose which skills I improved from one level to the next as opposed to the automatic increases that 4e offerred (this is already in 5e, so yeah).
It is important to note that I am looking at 4e from what it is at the end compared to at the beginning (more or less). I like expanded monster descriptions and I like how 4e has presented that in its latest books compared to the more sparse information in the earlier books.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 16, 2012 - 4:54PM
#6
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Date Joined:
May 24, 2012
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I'm no newcomer to 4th and have been playing it and enjoying it for quite a while now. But, I wish the Planescape approach to D&D was still actively supported. I mean, a couple things here and there are nice, I suppose. But, I would have happily bought a big on how to run a game in Great Wheel and its universe using 4th edition's rule set. That's one of the things that made me reluctant to dabble with PoL. While I love the 4e approach to Warlock, I really like the 3e's fluff and styling of the warlock too. If both were available options (even in fluff) from the start, I'd be even happier. Also, one thing I'd like 5E to do is make generic equivalents to the newer races, so that way a quick palette swap would make them the new guys, without inspiring frustration with older gamers. (half-dragons, planetouched, high elves, etc... Sounds like a plan to me!)
Disgruntled ghost of the Knights of W.T.F. (Keep D&D alive, end the edition wars!)
"And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Disclaimer: Most of my posts are based on opinions (and are sometimes humorous, other times inspirational)
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9 months ago ::
Sep 16, 2012 - 4:58PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Jan 24, 2006
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I totally agree with you, Rampant! Half-dragons would be freaking awesome. Also, your ideas on multi-classing are great.
Crimson_Concerto: Definitely. It had a kind of 'missing things' feeling which I think 5e will fix. I think it's partly because the initial player's handbook didn't have a few key classes (like the summoner you mentioned). Thanks for mentioning it!
--David
David L. Dostaler Author, Challenger RPG (free)
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9 months ago ::
Sep 16, 2012 - 5:37PM
#8
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Date Joined:
Oct 12, 2005
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I get all warm and squishy when I think of my days playing 2nd. There were many things that my young mind didn't like ("Hey, why do clerics get bonus spells and not wizards"), and somethings that made sense to me as a youth but later as I grew up just seemed unnecessary (such as some of the mechanics designed to instill fluff/flavor/feel)
But overall, 2nd was some of the brightest times of my life. The complete psionics handbook was probably one of my favorite books. It had a weird way of resolving things, but I liked the way that psionics developed, more so than later editions it didn't just feel like "New Magic"
I did like some of the fluffy stuff that happened at name level - I do wish that they could bring back some of that stuff as a module (my older self not wanting that in core books becuase it feels forced). In fact, I loved much of the old fluff, but I never even got to use a percentage of it. That's why with next I don't want the fluff built into the main rules, and instead go for a cleaner feel - like GURPS that really has very little in the way of fluff in the core books but the other books are fluff heavy. This way I could even use the fluff very easily in other games.
Lately I've been picking up some more of the pathfinder stuff - I don't care for the rules, but Paizo knew what they were doing with stories. I honestly hope (though highly doubt) we could get a partnership again with Wizards and another group - Let Wizards handle the rules, let the publisher handle the adventures.
Welcome to ZomboniLand - My D&D Blog http://zomboniland.blogspot.com/
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9 months ago ::
Sep 16, 2012 - 7:26PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Apr 16, 2009
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Big fan of 4E here. I will generally play previous editions without complaint, but I prefer 4E and will only DM 4E.
One thing that I didn't like about 4E was that it didn't feel finished right out of the box, by which I mean that there were some basic character concepts that were not available right from the get-go which made options feel much more limited.
I agree with this, but I predict it will be true of Next also. Just like it was true of every other wide-scope game system when first released.
(3.5E and Pathfinder don't count, because neither was ever the first release of a game system. They are minor mods of 3E that can carry over practically everything.)
I was there for the early days of 1E AD&D. About the third time I created a character I was trying to build a concept that the system didn't support.
"The world does not work the way you have been taught it does. We are not real as such; we exist within The Story. Unfortunately for you, you have inherited a condition from your mother known as Primary Protagonist Syndrome, which means The Story is interested in you. It will find you, and if you are not ready for the narrative strands it will throw at you..." - from Footloose
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9 months ago ::
Sep 16, 2012 - 7:35PM
#10
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Big fan of 4e, so maybe it should come as no surprise that books that I loved most from past editions were those that assisted me in creating my own content.
I recall a book (I believe it was one of the brown softcover AD&D 2e class books) that mentioned creating your own school of magic and the minimum number of spells you needed to create for each spell level.
More of my favorites from AD&D 2e include: the build-your-own class rules, the campaign setting guide that introduced flintlocks and gaslights, the book that gave a system for figuring out a point value for magic item creation (from which you could determine what number of exotic components you needed to create the item), etc.
Why Mechanics-Alignment Integration is Bad
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so why even play a fighter if you can play the paladin the exact same way behaviorally and get added power to boot. "Paladin" is about accepting better game-enhancing mechanics at the price of more rigid in game behavior.
Really? So it goes something like this?
Fighter: "I want to be a paladin." NPC: "Really?" Fighter: "Yes." NPC: "Very well." Starts reading from a holy book while still in-character "Do you accept having to choose and stick to the lawful good alignment, eventhough neither of us actually knows that it exists or what it is?" Fighter: "I do." NPC: "Do you reject good game balance because you accidentally rolled a high Charisma?" Fighter: "What?" NPC: "I don't know what it means either." Fighter: "Oh. Umm, ok I do." NPC: "In the name of all that is metagamey and broken, accept these better game enhancing mechanics." Fighter: "These what?" NPC: "Just get out there and try to fulfill a million different people's notion of good while not violating and part of any of them."
taking an argument too far
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So the system is designed such that every single hit needs to be described to avoid confusion? Here's a scenario. The players are nudists, everybody in the world are nudists, it's not weird, it's totally normal in this land. They are naked and they fight drakes taking damage throughout, but healing up with surges. Later they meet the guy who raised the drakes.
Part 1: I didn't describe any of the hits. What does he see?
Part 2: Lets say I described the drakes as biting the players, yet they healed up. What does he see?
Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.
D20 Modern Toon PC Race.
Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.
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