Community

 
Jump Menu:
Post Reply
Page 2 of 4  •  Prev 1 2 3 4 Next
9 months ago  ::  Sep 17, 2012 - 5:42PM #11
CarlT
Date Joined: Apr 10, 2009
Posts: 2,878

Sep 17, 2012 -- 12:31PM, Orkbard wrote:

I'm of the mind that Counterspell needs to be a Wizard Class feature, (ala parry), not a spell. Something like you have the ability as a reaction, (because your reacting to a spellcaster) to attempt to counter a spell being cast within 60, or so, feet. You engage in a contest with the caster, opposing your magic ability check against the caster’s. If you win, the caster’s spell has no effect.
Personally, think that would be a better use of the ability than as a spell. This fits my idea of a spell-dual with Wizards casting and countering in turn.
My 2cp.
 




I'd be fine with this as well.  And it solves the problem of taking valuable cantrip slots away.

I'd even be OK if it was a higher-than-first-level class feature.

I just don't see it being worth a spell slot.

Note:  I mentioned this in another thread, but it needs to be here as well:  I also think that - if the spell does become an at-will ability (whether class feature or cantrip) it should specify that it only can be used on spells that either target the wizard directly or include the wizard's space.  I don't think the wizard should be countering (for example) the defensive or healing spells of their opponents.  You can't 'parry' an attack not aimed at you.

Carl

Quick Reply
Cancel
9 months ago  ::  Sep 17, 2012 - 7:12PM #12
Orkbard
Date Joined: Mar 3, 2012
Posts: 508

Sep 17, 2012 -- 5:42PM, CarlT wrote:

Sep 17, 2012 -- 12:31PM, Orkbard wrote:

I'm of the mind that Counterspell needs to be a Wizard Class feature, (ala parry), not a spell. Something like you have the ability as a reaction, (because your reacting to a spellcaster) to attempt to counter a spell being cast within 60, or so, feet. You engage in a contest with the caster, opposing your magic ability check against the caster’s. If you win, the caster’s spell has no effect.
Personally, think that would be a better use of the ability than as a spell. This fits my idea of a spell-dual with Wizards casting and countering in turn.
My 2cp.
 




I'd be fine with this as well.  And it solves the problem of taking valuable cantrip slots away.

I'd even be OK if it was a higher-than-first-level class feature.

I just don't see it being worth a spell slot.

Note:  I mentioned this in another thread, but it needs to be here as well:  I also think that - if the spell does become an at-will ability (whether class feature or cantrip) it should specify that it only can be used on spells that either target the wizard directly or include the wizard's space.  I don't think the wizard should be countering (for example) the defensive or healing spells of their opponents.  You can't 'parry' an attack not aimed at you.

Carl



I completely agree that it should be treated like parry in that it can only be used on spells that target you. However, at later levels there should be an advanced version to counter the AoE spells as well, or something based around the Traditions they have been talking about.

Quick Reply
Cancel
9 months ago  ::  Sep 17, 2012 - 8:25PM #13
Drahiricomadus
Date Joined: Mar 3, 2003
Posts: 28
In 3.x you could just ready an action with Dispel Magic (or Greater Dispel Magic, or similar spells) and make a Dispel check to try to counter the spell. 
A Dispel check was  (1d20 + your caster level, maximum +10 for Dispel Magic or +20 for Greater Dispel Magic)

In D&D Next they broke up Dispel Magic and made it simpler by cutting away the counterspell part and making it a new spell of lower level.

You could also counterspell by casting the same spell if you knew it (and had to make a check to understand which spell was cast)

Now it's pretty straightforward and I like how it works...doesn't even take an action, you could counterspell AND cast in the same round!
...but honestly I would never prepare it unless in very specific situations... I'd rather have Dispel Magic as it was in 3.x, much more versatile.

To be a class feature, you should be limiting it. With a 2nd spell slot you can only counterspell spells of 3rd level or lower (the enemy consider it cast) or prevent other spells (even a 10level spell!) from working, with just spell of 2nd level.

I'd make it this way. I wouldn't give it at 1st level, otherwise it would be too easy for non-caster multiclass characters to hinder ALL spells by just taking a level of Wizard.

Level 3: Counterspell (class feature): By preparing an action, you can target a spell cast whithin 50 feet of you. You and the caster make opposed spell attacks (1d20+magic attack bonus+magic ability modifier). If you win, the caster's spell fails but is not expended.
Level 6: Improved Counterspell (class feature): just before making a counterspell check to prevent someone from casting or to resist a counterspell, you may consume a spell slot to gain a bonus on the check equal to the level of the expended slot.
Level 12: Superior Counterspell (class feature): when you use the counterspell class feature you may expend a spell slot before making the check. If you win and the level of the slot you used was equal or higher than the spell you tried to counter, the enemy also expendes the slot. If you fail, you get +4 bonus on counterspelling checks for 1 minute.
Level 15: Counterspell Mastery (class feature): when you ready an action to counterspell or win a check against counterspelling you may also use a reaction to counter another spell cast before the end of your next round. 

Well, I only need level 1, 9 and 18 and it's almost a specialty :D (maybe +1, +2, +3 to the check?)
Mindstorming and ideas on how to tweak the Wizard class (hp, AC, class features):
[And so, you chose to be a wizard...]
Quick Reply
Cancel
9 months ago  ::  Sep 18, 2012 - 1:22PM #14
tarthrin
Date Joined: Mar 15, 2005
Posts: 36
What about making a failed counterspell more dangerous?
There has got to be some sparks flying when you try to counter a lightning bolt.

Then it would be a bit more even if the counterspell was more likely to work or a class feature.
Quick Reply
Cancel
9 months ago  ::  Sep 18, 2012 - 4:09PM #15
Quidhala
Date Joined: Sep 11, 2008
Posts: 288
@Drahiricomadus, I like your proposal. 

What if a successful use does minimal damage the wizard countering the spell? Like they are absorbing the spell's power and it weakens them each time. This should encourage players to reserve it for emergencies.

Also, make it so they can only counter spells cast on allies. If an evil mage transforms himself into a crow or empowers his skeletal horde I don't think that kind of spell should be countered. But if the mage uses an attack spell or tries to control an ally's mind then the wizard can sense that something in their arcane aura is changing, or some such. The wizard in attuned to his allies normal levels of magic/non-magic.

Quick Reply
Cancel
9 months ago  ::  Sep 18, 2012 - 4:14PM #16
EnglishLanguage
Date Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 4,970
Or "Damage that cannot be reduced in any way." to the Wizard counterpspelling equal to the Spell Slot counterspelled....just tossing it out there.
Quick Reply
Cancel
9 months ago  ::  Sep 18, 2012 - 4:42PM #17
Quidhala
Date Joined: Sep 11, 2008
Posts: 288

Sep 18, 2012 -- 4:14PM, EnglishLanguage wrote:

Or "Damage that cannot be reduced in any way." to the Wizard counterpspelling equal to the Spell Slot counterspelled....just tossing it out there.



Nice idea. Maybe which ever is higher?

Quick Reply
Cancel
9 months ago  ::  Sep 18, 2012 - 4:50PM #18
Rory
Date Joined: Jun 24, 2005
Posts: 1,071
 Bring back metamagic. Counterspell could be a prereq for spell reversal.
Quick Reply
Cancel
9 months ago  ::  Sep 22, 2012 - 9:14AM #19
MacEochaid
Date Joined: Sep 20, 2008
Posts: 379
Is this way out of league for the Magic User specialty? I feel like this would be better than Find Familiar, since it would be cool for a Magic User Priest or Magic User Fighter to be able to counter spell rather than have a rat running around them.
Quick Reply
Cancel
9 months ago  ::  Sep 22, 2012 - 9:46AM #20
warrl
Date Joined: Apr 16, 2009
Posts: 5,267

Sep 17, 2012 -- 12:31PM, Orkbard wrote:

I'm of the mind that Counterspell needs to be a Wizard Class feature, (ala parry), not a spell. Something like you have the ability as a reaction, (because your reacting to a spellcaster) to attempt to counter a spell being cast within 60, or so, feet.


I certainly hope that anyone who thinks the Fighter's CS dice are "too plot couponish" because you can parry as a reaction, also objects to this.

Because otherwise they are simply saying "Fighters can't have nice things".

(Note: I am not one of those people.)

"The world does not work the way you have been taught it does. We are not real as such; we exist within The Story. Unfortunately for you, you have inherited a condition from your mother known as Primary Protagonist Syndrome, which means The Story is interested in you. It will find you, and if you are not ready for the narrative strands it will throw at you..." - from Footloose
Quick Reply
Cancel
Page 2 of 4  •  Prev 1 2 3 4 Next
Jump Menu:
 
    Viewing this thread :: 0 registered and 1 guest
    No registered users viewing