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9 months ago ::
Sep 09, 2012 - 2:45AM
#31
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Date Joined:
Aug 13, 2004
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I don't like either cosmologies.
The put concepts in their own planes, ignoring that these concepts cannot exist or evolve without a dynamic interaction with some other concepts, opposite concepts first.
If opposite forces has to plane-travel to reach each others, it makes no sense, even more when they are placed on opposite sides just to have a lovely symetrical map of the planes.
I don't like having a map of the planes. I would prefer that each planar travel consist in a real travel to find your way between dynamic planes and dynamic planes in constant evolution (because opposite forces are not in their own closets). These dynamic planes could even become a reason to the complexity of using magic.
I think the D&D cosmology should have less planes and more demi-planes.
"They are making it clear that when modern design and common sense come into conflict with tradition, tradition wins." - thecasualoblivion
"Vancian isn't broken, you just have to set your game to the wizard's clock!" - Oxybe
"In many ways, making a new edition of D&D is alot like trying to sell a car to the Amish." - Dwarfslayer
"Encounters are the heart of the AD&D game" - PHB AD&D 2nd edition.
"you shouldn't even bother trying to become like me." - Gary Gygax (Elfcrusher confirmed)
"Feel free to claim I said anything you like. How's someone going to call you out on it? Are they going to be all like, 'I know all of the things that Gary said, and that's not one of them?'"
- Gary Gygax
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9 months ago ::
Sep 09, 2012 - 2:45AM
#32
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- Forum Guide
- Hero Craftsman Gold Medalist
- Master Dungeon Master
Date Joined:
Jun 23, 2005
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Thanks, Dan! I amended my post!
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9 months ago ::
Sep 09, 2012 - 2:51AM
#33
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Date Joined:
Mar 26, 2007
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Thanks, Dan! I amended my post!
No problemo, I like your style, dude. *said like Sam Elliot/Cowboy Guy in The Big Lebowski*
So, it looks like the Ethereal Plane is back, should it be something that permeates every plane?
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9 months ago ::
Sep 09, 2012 - 2:58AM
#34
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Date Joined:
May 30, 2010
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Thanks for the pics. I see that there are actually "two wheels", the Alignment planes and the Elemental planes. I was sort of hoping you could mash the two cosmologies to fit this pic:  But it looks like Feywild and Shadowfell sort of de-axify the World Axis. Maybe they can be the hubcaps?
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9 months ago ::
Sep 09, 2012 - 3:19AM
#35
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Date Joined:
Apr 28, 2009
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Definitely prefer the world axis.
I like the Astral Sea containg all the divine realms, opposed by the Elemental Chaos ( gods verus titans/elder gods, mirroring real-world creation myths) and the corrupted Abyss-- with the Primal world/prime material plane at the center. I'm also a fan of the Lovecraftian Far Realm, and LOVE the truly mythical Feywild. Indifferent on the Shadowfell, though (could use more Ravenloft).
Not really a fan of either Planescape or the Great Wheel-- they demystify the planes to the point of reducing them to sci-fi worlds, for the purpose of making a sort of "periodic table" of the planes, IMO. It seems to me that almost every plane has to have a mathematical opposite, with planes in between that are "this neighboir averaged with that neighbor." A lot of grid-filling going on, rather than having planes that are evocative on their own. Again, IMO.
That being said, give both World Axis and Great Wheel as examples in a MotP, DMG, PHB, Red box, whatever-- allow groups to use what they like, or make their own cosmology.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 09, 2012 - 3:34AM
#36
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Date Joined:
May 30, 2010
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Shadowfell feels too banal and corporeal to me.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 09, 2012 - 3:41AM
#37
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Date Joined:
Aug 13, 2004
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Shadowfell feels too banal and corporeal to me.
I agree.
In fact, any non elemental plane feels too corporeal for me.
"They are making it clear that when modern design and common sense come into conflict with tradition, tradition wins." - thecasualoblivion
"Vancian isn't broken, you just have to set your game to the wizard's clock!" - Oxybe
"In many ways, making a new edition of D&D is alot like trying to sell a car to the Amish." - Dwarfslayer
"Encounters are the heart of the AD&D game" - PHB AD&D 2nd edition.
"you shouldn't even bother trying to become like me." - Gary Gygax (Elfcrusher confirmed)
"Feel free to claim I said anything you like. How's someone going to call you out on it? Are they going to be all like, 'I know all of the things that Gary said, and that's not one of them?'"
- Gary Gygax
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9 months ago ::
Sep 09, 2012 - 3:51AM
#38
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Date Joined:
Mar 26, 2007
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In fact, any non elemental plane feels too corporeal for me.
Even the Ethereal?
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9 months ago ::
Sep 09, 2012 - 5:22AM
#39
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Date Joined:
Aug 13, 2004
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In fact, any non elemental plane feels too corporeal for me.
Even the Ethereal?
Hehe, if you consider elemental = inner planes, you forgot the astral plane and the material plane 
As ethereal and astral planes as being elemental can be discussed, even if D&D is clear about that elements are physical and based on Air, earth, Fire and Water, material plane can't be an elemental plane by definition. So I don't think inner planes = elemental planes. It's one of the numerous flaws in the great wheel cosmology.
"They are making it clear that when modern design and common sense come into conflict with tradition, tradition wins." - thecasualoblivion
"Vancian isn't broken, you just have to set your game to the wizard's clock!" - Oxybe
"In many ways, making a new edition of D&D is alot like trying to sell a car to the Amish." - Dwarfslayer
"Encounters are the heart of the AD&D game" - PHB AD&D 2nd edition.
"you shouldn't even bother trying to become like me." - Gary Gygax (Elfcrusher confirmed)
"Feel free to claim I said anything you like. How's someone going to call you out on it? Are they going to be all like, 'I know all of the things that Gary said, and that's not one of them?'"
- Gary Gygax
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9 months ago ::
Sep 09, 2012 - 5:33AM
#40
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Date Joined:
Mar 26, 2007
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In fact, any non elemental plane feels too corporeal for me.
Even the Ethereal?
Hehe, if you consider elemental = inner planes, you forgot the astral plane and the material plane
As ethereal and astral planes as being elemental can be discussed, even if D&D is clear about that elements are physical and based on Air, earth, Fire and Water, material plane can't be an elemental plane by definition. So I don't think inner planes = elemental planes. It's one of the numerous flaws in the great wheel cosmology.
This brings up an interesting point, the Ethereal Plane is back in 5th Ed (mentioned in the condition), does it permeate all other planes?
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