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9 months ago ::
Sep 05, 2012 - 10:00AM
#11
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Date Joined:
Sep 15, 2010
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Plus, as I already stated they put out a higher quality product than they needed to. The minatures are painted, and Tiles are of much better quality than the Adventure Set Tiles. The Order and Creature cards are in color and on high glossy card stock, better quality than the cards with the Adveture Sets.
Yes they are a business, yes they are concerned with making money; but the Dungeon Command game release shows they are also committed to giving out decent product as well.
I'm not saying they're perfect, especially since I feel that they're not following the best business model they could, but that doesn't mean I think they're money grubbing corporate bastards either.
Side Note: Doing a quick check on Auggie I did a brief math check. It would cost about as much to buy a whole new starter box as it would to buy the Order Cards and the Minuatures as individual pieces; if I was to try and purchase them in quantities that match the starter box that is.
I'm also disappointed that they do not offer to sell all the Minatures. No Elemental Guardian, no Dwarf Cleric, Umber Hulk, Drow Sorcerer, Giant Spider. Not that those pieces are necessary for a complete Warband, but disappointing in that it reduces the options of me as a consumer.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 05, 2012 - 10:18AM
#12
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Date Joined:
Oct 16, 2010
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WotC is too busy counting their money to listen to your complaints, sorry. Their business models screw consumers by design (see: CCGs), because they're a business out to try and make money. And believe me, they're going to make fistfuls of money from DC by selling to resalers like Auggie and eBayers. It's odd though, they specifically talk about wanting to support the competitive aspect of this game in this interview, but the anti-consumer business model doesn't agree with that:
I find the model kind of frustrating as well, but what's the reasonable alternative, assuming 4-of is actually the cirrect number of cards to allow? If you try to sell everything individually, it becomes impossible to convince stores to stock the game because inventory management is a nightmare. And if you sell a complete set then it's overwhelming for newbies and costs a fortune; less than buying 4 boxes, sure, but not a whole lot because the majority of the cost is in minis.
I think tournaments that draft boxes and singles sales are both reasonable ways to cope, and I think it's really wasy to say "those money-grubbing bastards!" but I don't think DC is going to make them a mint. I hope I'm wrong and it does super well, but if they were wanting to rake us over the coals, they'd make it a CMG. Preset boxes are just not going to get there in terms of making a fortune; the most you ever possibly need for one person is four boxes of each, which makes them about as much money as selling a single box of Magic boosters.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 05, 2012 - 10:38AM
#13
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I still don't understand why this model is considered expensive. $100 or even $160 at MSRP for a complete set (as in you don't have to buy a single more item for this set, period) is a steal compared to MtG and the previous miniature game.
I remember buying cases of the Wardrums, Deathknell, and Underdark for $70-80 bucks and needing to buy 4-5 to even get a single copy of every model... let alone 4.
I do agree that it's obnoxious that I also get the tiles and rules, but that's something I'm willing to deal with.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 05, 2012 - 10:57AM
#14
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Date Joined:
Oct 16, 2010
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It frustrates me when I'm trying to sell the game because people don't like to hear that the box isn't complete. I agree with you that it's not ultimately that expensive, but it is a turn-off to gamers that are used to buying things complete, which is too bad.
Though 100% agreed it is way better than CMG distribution.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 05, 2012 - 2:52PM
#15
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Date Joined:
Sep 15, 2010
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swilde23: While as a total investment it might not be that bad in comparision (I've got more money inveseted in Magic the Gathering myself), the main issue that casual players will have is that the investment it up front. For example, I don't need to invest a couple hundred dollars in Magic the Gathering right away. I can buy a starter deck for $12.00 or so and then buy booster packs to slowly build my collection up. I can spend as little or as much as I want, over as long or short a time period as I want. I can get a nice slow progression into the game by purchasing a few booster packs every paycheck, or I can do it all at once if I want to spend the cash.
That's not an option with Dungeon Command. It's got one price to pay, and that's it. The only break you might get is if your local retailer sells them cheaper than other stores (I'm fortunate that mine does).
I didn't play the previous miniatures game, I was out of the D&D loop for quite a while and I've only recently gotten back into it thanks to a few friends (and my daughter's boyfriend).
Ultiville: What do you mean the box is incomplete? While it doesn't give players enough product in one box to create custom Warbands, it does meet the minimum requirements to play the game. It's as complete as a Magic the Gathering starter deck, at least as near as I can figure.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 05, 2012 - 3:58PM
#16
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It's not really fair to compare buying an ultimate set of DC compared to the $12 MtG Starter set. Of course, the starter set for DC is a little bit more (msrp 40 something, internet price 20 something), but it's not the $100-200 up front cost that we're talking about.
That value buys you an entire set, allowing you to build the most competitive decks possible.
To date myself a little, when I was last playing MtG Tooth and Nail was the new hot strat. In order to stock your deck with the 4 you needed, you could either buy boosters (hundreds, possibily thousands of dollars), or you could buy 4 of them online for $50-100 each.
I fail to see how cost is even a consideration here.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 05, 2012 - 4:08PM
#17
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Date Joined:
Oct 27, 2007
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Side Note: Doing a quick check on Auggie I did a brief math check. It would cost about as much to buy a whole new starter box as it would to buy the Order Cards and the Minuatures as individual pieces; if I was to try and purchase them in quantities that match the starter box that is.
I expect the owner to be compensated for his time in breaking up the sets and listing the parts individually. I think the prices are on the cheap side, actually.
I'm also disappointed that they do not offer to sell all the Minatures. No Elemental Guardian, no Dwarf Cleric, Umber Hulk, Drow Sorcerer, Giant Spider. Not that those pieces are necessary for a complete Warband, but disappointing in that it reduces the options of me as a consumer.
The supply is much more limited now than it was initially. I suspect they broke up a number of boxes in the beginning (around 100 of each kind it looks like), to test the market.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 05, 2012 - 4:44PM
#18
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Date Joined:
Jan 23, 2003
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As much as we think that the company WOTC are there for they love of the game, it ain't. If the product does not make money (or predicted to make money) itwon't get made.
Conversely, if you don't love what you do, it's usually makes it a lot harder to make money.
It is possible to love what you do AND realize you need to make a profit in order to continue doing it. I'm sure almost everyone at WotC would do thier job for free. The problem is, broke people can't do squat, folks.
So quit hating on them for trying to find a way to make miniatures that is actually profitable. I'd rather buy miniatures and make WotC rich than have no miniatures.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 05, 2012 - 4:48PM
#19
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Date Joined:
Jan 23, 2003
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Also, to the original poster, have you considered trading minis with friends or splitting boxes? Are you seriously going to play with all 240 plastic dudes? Because if you are, then suck it up and pay for it.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 05, 2012 - 6:34PM
#20
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Date Joined:
Sep 15, 2010
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Hreth: first point, it's not about compensating the store owner for breaking up the boxes. I realize that individual items are usually more expensive than purchasing a set as a whole. The same holds true for virtually any product. It costs more to buy sixty individual cards online for Magic the Gathering than it would to buy five booster packs, but buying them individually allows you to pick and choose which cards you get and it actually cheaper in the long run than buying a ton of booster packs and hoping you get the cards you want. I mentioned not because I was against it, but because at this stage of the game it's probably more cost effective to buy a second starter box than to buy individual pieces online. After the second box, since I will have the cap of 4 of certain minatures and cards, it would become more cost effective to begin buying individual cards/minatures online. This of course depends on what exactly my planned Warband will be, but at this point it's sort of not important as I really can't afford to justify buying more than one box a month and Tyranny of Goblins comes out in a couple weeks. Of course I do have some birthday money lying around .... No, no, I was planning on buying a Drop Kick Murphy's CD with that. Second Point, I figured as much; however that does not stop me from being a little disappointed with the limited choices at the present time. By the time I'm ready to start buying cards and miniatures online the supply will hopefully be a little better. swilde23: While the costs are not the same, I was comparing them based on the model at which you could set yourself up. Magic the Gathering, while potentially costing more money, allows you as the consumer to decide how best to make yourself competitive. Starter pre-made decks, booster packs, deck building kits, fat packs. It allows you to buy cards according to your needs and budget, albeit within certain pre-decided constraints set by how the game products are designed and packaged. I compared this to Dungeon Command in it's current state where there is basically only one means by which players can customize their Warbands: Buying more starter sets. Yes, you could probably do fairly well with just two full starter sets, but because it's the only option in town I find it rather more restrictive than I would like, and (in my opinion) short sighted on WotC's part. Fallen_Star_02: No, I do not plan on playing with 240 minatures. Who has the time?  I used it as an extreme example of what would be required for someone who had designed a Warband that managed to use something from every box, and each box only had 1 of the particular item the player needed. Extreme yes, but also plausible considering how the starter boxes are designed. As for trading and splitting costs, I'm still in the process of trying to get my friends to play. Our group only gets together once a month and I only had Heart of Cormyr for our last session. Now that I also have Sting of Lolth I'm going to bring them to our September geek fest and see if I can interest them. If not, I'll probably still keep buying one of each starter set because they're still useful as expansion packs for the Adventure games (WoA, CR, and LoD), but I won't buy them competitively to try to build a workable custom Warband beyond what can be done with just the base starter sets.
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