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8 months ago ::
Oct 08, 2012 - 12:22PM
#101
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We've been calling it the fey mosquito
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8 months ago ::
Oct 08, 2012 - 8:27PM
#102
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Optimizing around a concept that is viable is still optimizing. "No mainstat higher than a 14" on a lazy build is dishonest for intent. Taking Expertise? That's optimizing. IAoP? Optimizing.
Sounds like you have a smart 7 year old. Play with a ranger doing 1d12+8 per Twin Strike hit at AL16, a Mage doing Arc Lightning for 1d6+9 per target every round, or someone who follows your belief that an 18 isn't necessary AND rejects expertise and light blade support because they're using a Mace on a Rogue.
Do you know why optimization is important? Because it's dishonest to those reliant on others to tell them what's utter crap for ANYONE HERE to say nonsense like "you can do perfectly fine with a 14", even if you qualify it with "If you build in this very specific way to remain at par" you are going to instill the general belief that a 14 is fine. People insist on being special little flowers that require patient DMs to not just TPK them every 2 hours, and they are generally very very stupid, even in a tactical roleplaying game. You talk about wanting to train the next generation; one of the first things you learn when becoming a teacher is to treat your students as if they know nothing about the subject at the beginning.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection. My Guides
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8 months ago ::
Oct 09, 2012 - 8:15PM
#103
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Date Joined:
Nov 17, 2011
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Look, if you build the most absolutely bog-standard point buy array (16/16 etc.) get a race with a +2 in one of your primary stats, and grab powers that look interesting, you'll be guaranteed to do about 60-70% of what an optimized character can do with MOST classes until Paragon tier. And retraining gives you more than enough time to fix the mistakes.
If anything this is the edition of D&D that needs the least optimizing, mostly because it's so damn hard to muck it up.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 09, 2012 - 9:54PM
#104
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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We've been calling it the fey mosquito
Heh.... I have been discussing reflavoring a faerrie Lazy/Warlord with some daemonic background /Vampire heritage feats as
STORMBRINGER.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 10, 2012 - 11:24AM
#105
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Date Joined:
Apr 16, 2009
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Hell, there's a SEVEN-YEAR old girl at one of our tables (gotta start training the next generation) who made a pixie fighter and even she doesn't make the kind of anti-op choices you're insisting upon. Indeed, she insisted upon cranking her Strength to the max so she could drag her victims off into the woods and EAT THEM (Her vision of pixies is not the same as most seven-year old girls).
I want to be in a game with this kid!
I think I'd play my Rapunzel character again. Seems like a good fit, and she's a fun character to play. Pinocchio and Jiminy Cricket were good for a short campaign but I'm kind of glad that's over.
Or maybe I'd finish my Pixie chaladin|sorcerer. Definitely that if we're doing an all-Pixie party.
"The world does not work the way you have been taught it does. We are not real as such; we exist within The Story. Unfortunately for you, you have inherited a condition from your mother known as Primary Protagonist Syndrome, which means The Story is interested in you. It will find you, and if you are not ready for the narrative strands it will throw at you..." - from Footloose
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8 months ago ::
Oct 12, 2012 - 5:14AM
#106
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This thread's approaching the subject from totally the wrong angle. The question isn't if the character is "optimized", the question is if the character actually does anything useful.
A highly suboptimal Warlord can be a useful PC just by standing there and using things at random, for instance, while the charop forums are littered with highly optimized builds that aren't actually any good at all because they spend all their feats figuring out how to, say, use the Polearm Momentum feat on a Runepriest while failing to think "is it better to do this than just use my powers normally?"
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8 months ago ::
Oct 12, 2012 - 6:25AM
#107
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(The other major mistake in this thread is talking to DLFan. He's a troll.)
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8 months ago ::
Oct 12, 2012 - 9:49AM
#108
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Date Joined:
Nov 17, 2011
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This thread's approaching the subject from totally the wrong angle. The question isn't if the character is "optimized", the question is if the character actually does anything useful.
A highly suboptimal Warlord can be a useful PC just by standing there and using things at random, for instance, while the charop forums are littered with highly optimized builds that aren't actually any good at all because they spend all their feats figuring out how to, say, use the Polearm Momentum feat on a Runepriest while failing to think "is it better to do this than just use my powers normally?"
At least 50% of the charop boards are thought experiments on how to do something, not actually exercises in building a viable character. No one needs +84 on a jump check by investing like 12 feats, 6 utility powers and an epic destiny.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 12, 2012 - 1:10PM
#109
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This thread's approaching the subject from totally the wrong angle. The question isn't if the character is "optimized", the question is if the character actually does anything useful.
A highly suboptimal Warlord can be a useful PC just by standing there and using things at random, for instance, while the charop forums are littered with highly optimized builds that aren't actually any good at all because they spend all their feats figuring out how to, say, use the Polearm Momentum feat on a Runepriest while failing to think "is it better to do this than just use my powers normally?"
This whole post is full of "right", but the bolded part is especially relevant. You can build suboptimal characters and still be a valued member of the party. Will all classes work this way? No, strikers in particular need /some/ reasonable choices to be made with stats, items, and feats as their job is to A hit, and B do damage upon hitting...so the math expectations impact them a little more then, say a lazylord who grants other people attacks.
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