First, I still love my 4e games. But the only group I found out to play is playing 3.5, so I need to adapt.
Second, about 5 years ago, I deleted from my brain all info I had on 3.5 optimization. So, now I need to join a high level group with no idea how to start building my cleric. Any help would be useful. Now, further info about the request:
Abilities were rolled. I got a 16/16/16/14/10/10.
19th level. Must be a cleric, or divine caster (Favored Soul or Archivist). The group is lacking a divine caster. Personally, I would prefer a Cleric for turns and spell versatility over FS, and the ability to consult the class table offline over archivist. Of course, prestige classes are allowed.
Full casting capability is a must.
While the table is very open about what is permitted, I would like to stay with Core (no XPH and no UA), Complete Divine, Complete Arcane, Spell Compendium and Magic Item Compendium, since I own those books, and is easier to consult on table.
I would prefer that the build would be a primary caster. I know clerics can become melee powerhouses, but I want to play more on the buff-healing-blasting role than smack-it-with-a-big-weapon role.
Not going on Divine Metamagic: Persistent Spell way for personal reasons. Other Divine metas are allowed.
Any help would be appreciated. I have literally no idea where to start on this one.
There are really three types of feats, in my opinion. My ratings are based on how much they add flavorwise to your character:
Feats that you pick because they fit your character: For instance, Jack of All Trades, Disciple of Lore, Skill Focus, Potent Restorables. In my game, my Artificer studied healing and magic extensively. He had a strong belief that while it wasn't possible to be the best at everything, it was important to understand a bit of everything. These feats didn't add any more opportunity to roleplay; they reinforced the ideas already presented with mechanics to back them up.
Feats that you pick because they represent what your character is becoming:For instance, Multiclass feats, White Lotus Evasion. My rogue is taking a Warden multiclass; representing him overcoming his fears of primal spirits. My artificer is taking White Lotus Evasion, because it represents him returning to his elven roots. These feats accompany adding ideas to your character, and add mechanics that allow these ideas to function where if they were missing, it would not.
Feats You Pick Because You Need Them Or Solely Because of a Mechanical Bonus: For instance, Weapon Proficency, Arcane Implement Proficency, Expertise. If you need to take a feat in order either 1. Complete a reasonable archetype (Enchanter who fights with Sword and Spell) or 2. Meet the expectations that the group puts on you (ie; In order to play in this Super Optimized group, I need to have X otherwise I'm pulling the group down), then it fits this. On the same end, sometimes you're going to pick a feat because it makes combat more fun; not because it adds to your character in any way. Expanded critical hit range? Makes the game more fun; but other than "My character got better", there's not much to it.
I would say that general feats often fall more often into the "Solely Because of a Mechanical Bonus" column. There's exceptions of course (Skill Power), but that's generally how I perceive things.
My DDI subscription is renewed. I really missed the compendium on my table.
Cleric 19. Wis >Cha > Con > Str >Dex > Int. I recomend cloistered variant from unearthed arcana. Take any prestige class that happens to give full casting.
Flipping through complete divine, I'd recomend this exact build, but changing anything won't hurt.
Radiant Servant of Pelor isn't bad, but is tied to Pelor and the sun domain, which can hinder you.
My basic tactic is to snatch up as many domains as you can and enjoy a wide range of spell options and domain powers. IIRC this build gets 6. Changing up the exact levels in the prestige classes isn't a bad idea, and you can kind of match them to suit where you want to focus. This order gives you a lot of immunites, and utility abilities aside from spells which can be fun.
If starting at 19th level, and your DM is cool with it, you can be an older contemplative and ditch the divine oracle levels. This will give you Eternal Body, so you don't age like described by Maat.
Your feats are basically only used to enter prestige classes.
5e comments and thoughts all in one place. Check it out to provide feedback, mock, or steal ideas. http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/28835423/Krusks_5e_Design_Goals?sdb=1
Cloistered Cleric is UA, no UA was a clause. It's good advice, just advice he asked not to get. Still, a very good build that can do well... a lot of things. Changing out to regular cleric drops you to 5 domains, and you only lose Knowledge, that's not bad.
Cloistered Cleric is UA, no UA was a clause. It's good advice, just advice he asked not to get. Still, a very good build that can do well... a lot of things. Changing out to regular cleric drops you to 5 domains, and you only lose Knowledge, that's not bad.
Look at his reasoning. I linked to the content and explained that it was free and easily accessable. Print it out and you are golden. I also mentioned that it was a recomendation and suggestion. Removing it leaves the build 100% in tact.
While the table is very open about what is permitted, I would like to stay with Core (no XPH and no UA), Complete Divine, Complete Arcane, Spell Compendium and Magic Item Compendium, since I own those books, and is easier to consult on table.
5e comments and thoughts all in one place. Check it out to provide feedback, mock, or steal ideas. http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/28835423/Krusks_5e_Design_Goals?sdb=1
I recomend cloistered variant from unearthed arcana. Take any prestige class that happens to give full casting.
Many people tell me to get the cloistered variant. I can understand how the d6 hit die isn't that bad, and how you can handle the low BAB with Divine Power. But losing shield and armor proficiency for one domain don't hinder you too hard? Honest question.
Radiant Servant of Pelor isn't bad, but is tied to Pelor and the sun domain, which can hinder you.
My basic tactic is to snatch up as many domains as you can and enjoy a wide range of spell options and domain powers. IIRC this build gets 6. Changing up the exact levels in the prestige classes isn't a bad idea, and you can kind of match them to suit where you want to focus. This order gives you a lot of immunites, and utility abilities aside from spells which can be fun.
Awesome combination. And a great starting point. I can twink from there. Thank you.
If starting at 19th level, and your DM is cool with it, you can be an older contemplative and ditch the divine oracle levels. This will give you Eternal Body, so you don't age like described by Maat.
I'm not a big fan of the aging mechanic, but I'll go consult the DM. Some of the other characters in the group aren't exactly younger protagonists anymore. Also, the old sage figure is always a great background.
There are really three types of feats, in my opinion. My ratings are based on how much they add flavorwise to your character:
Feats that you pick because they fit your character: For instance, Jack of All Trades, Disciple of Lore, Skill Focus, Potent Restorables. In my game, my Artificer studied healing and magic extensively. He had a strong belief that while it wasn't possible to be the best at everything, it was important to understand a bit of everything. These feats didn't add any more opportunity to roleplay; they reinforced the ideas already presented with mechanics to back them up.
Feats that you pick because they represent what your character is becoming:For instance, Multiclass feats, White Lotus Evasion. My rogue is taking a Warden multiclass; representing him overcoming his fears of primal spirits. My artificer is taking White Lotus Evasion, because it represents him returning to his elven roots. These feats accompany adding ideas to your character, and add mechanics that allow these ideas to function where if they were missing, it would not.
Feats You Pick Because You Need Them Or Solely Because of a Mechanical Bonus: For instance, Weapon Proficency, Arcane Implement Proficency, Expertise. If you need to take a feat in order either 1. Complete a reasonable archetype (Enchanter who fights with Sword and Spell) or 2. Meet the expectations that the group puts on you (ie; In order to play in this Super Optimized group, I need to have X otherwise I'm pulling the group down), then it fits this. On the same end, sometimes you're going to pick a feat because it makes combat more fun; not because it adds to your character in any way. Expanded critical hit range? Makes the game more fun; but other than "My character got better", there's not much to it.
I would say that general feats often fall more often into the "Solely Because of a Mechanical Bonus" column. There's exceptions of course (Skill Power), but that's generally how I perceive things.
My DDI subscription is renewed. I really missed the compendium on my table.
I find cloistered cleric can be a hinderance at levels 1-3, but after that its no hinderance at all. Especially if you don't want to do melee or cast divine power. Mithril Full Plate is medium armor, so you are good to go.
Not my link on the guide, but I second it.
I don't like aging mechanics either, I find them too cheesey. Some people love them, and it is an optimization request so its worth pointing out.
5e comments and thoughts all in one place. Check it out to provide feedback, mock, or steal ideas. http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/28835423/Krusks_5e_Design_Goals?sdb=1
Quick questions, the Knowledge domain "class skills" is only for cleric levels, or PrC levels too?
I'm thinking into Cleric 3/Inquisitor 5/Oracle 2/Contemplative 10, without aging cheese (so, no reason to put contemplative frontloaded), and a 14 int. But the skill list of the PrCs are lacking a lot of knowledge skills. I remember that there was a feat that allow you to trat any skill from any class you have as a class skill. This can be taken if needed.
What is better: Divine Metamagic Quicken, or a stack of quicken (level 6) metamagic rod? Using it primarly for mass buffs and quickened Heals. Going DM would require the base meta, plus extra turnings (not stacking nightsticks for the same reason I'm not using persistent). Going metamagic rod would require quick draw.
There are really three types of feats, in my opinion. My ratings are based on how much they add flavorwise to your character:
Feats that you pick because they fit your character: For instance, Jack of All Trades, Disciple of Lore, Skill Focus, Potent Restorables. In my game, my Artificer studied healing and magic extensively. He had a strong belief that while it wasn't possible to be the best at everything, it was important to understand a bit of everything. These feats didn't add any more opportunity to roleplay; they reinforced the ideas already presented with mechanics to back them up.
Feats that you pick because they represent what your character is becoming:For instance, Multiclass feats, White Lotus Evasion. My rogue is taking a Warden multiclass; representing him overcoming his fears of primal spirits. My artificer is taking White Lotus Evasion, because it represents him returning to his elven roots. These feats accompany adding ideas to your character, and add mechanics that allow these ideas to function where if they were missing, it would not.
Feats You Pick Because You Need Them Or Solely Because of a Mechanical Bonus: For instance, Weapon Proficency, Arcane Implement Proficency, Expertise. If you need to take a feat in order either 1. Complete a reasonable archetype (Enchanter who fights with Sword and Spell) or 2. Meet the expectations that the group puts on you (ie; In order to play in this Super Optimized group, I need to have X otherwise I'm pulling the group down), then it fits this. On the same end, sometimes you're going to pick a feat because it makes combat more fun; not because it adds to your character in any way. Expanded critical hit range? Makes the game more fun; but other than "My character got better", there's not much to it.
I would say that general feats often fall more often into the "Solely Because of a Mechanical Bonus" column. There's exceptions of course (Skill Power), but that's generally how I perceive things.
My DDI subscription is renewed. I really missed the compendium on my table.
IIRC that feat you are talking about is in races of destiny, but I could be wrong.
Good catch on armor. Mithril Breastplate then? Its a 3 AC difference which isn't huge. Especially if you plan to stay out of melee.
DMM quicken or a stack of rods? I prefer the rods if you aren't taking persist. It frees up a lot of feats that I generally only find worth it for Persist. Especially if you need them to get in prestige classes. I generally see $$ is less important than Feat slots. You can always find more loot. you only get 7 or so feats.
5e comments and thoughts all in one place. Check it out to provide feedback, mock, or steal ideas. http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/28835423/Krusks_5e_Design_Goals?sdb=1
For a caster cleric, a Cloistered Cleric with the Madness domain would be pretty awesome.
Incidentally, if you aren't planning on (ab)using Divine feats for anything, you can still be a viable Cleric by dumping Cha and forgetting Turning. There are a lot of nice things which can be done aside from DMM Persist, though.
