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9 months ago ::
Sep 07, 2012 - 4:11PM
#71
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I Hate Tolkien!!
Me too.
Does it matter to me that Garry used those races and others to design a decent game around?
Not in the least. A litttle tweaking and those races are now mine.
Does it bother me that D&D adopted all those other abominable races? Notice I used the word abominable.
And it all started with Gary's insistence on those accursed black elves that no one seems to be able to color black.
The idea of a "black elf" actually came from Norse mythology. The Svartalfar. It was the word Snorri Sturlson used for Dwarves in his sagas (along with Duergar). I think Gary was simply taking this race and tacking it on to his game. Alternatively, there are the Dokkalfar.
Actually, no. In Norse “black” (svart) means “black hair” - a brunette, like the Celts or Slavs. The term for “black skin” (bla) is a different word. These “black elves” actually had pale white skin, according to the description in Alvismal.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 07, 2012 - 4:52PM
#72
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Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2012
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Then I guess Dokkalfar would be more correct. Either way, I'm pretty sure that's the idea he had, given as much as he used from Nordic lore.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 07, 2012 - 8:57PM
#73
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That's some clarification, Haldrik; I'm still trying to find differences, if any, among svartálfar, dökkálfar, and dwarfs. Wagner even calls the Aesir king Wotan a "light elf" to confuse matters for me. There is an Irish tale of a fairy nurse who refers to one of the subterranean people as "Fear Doircha" (Dark Man), but I wonder if that means other than complexion?
Tolkien's elves were the older, more experienced civilization that was dying out; all their junk was better from experience and maybe some "the ancient heroes were bigger than they make 'em now" paradigm. I don't recall them being particularly elitist either. Their pandirectional elitism as well as penchant for archery was a D&D thing, wasn't it?
Tolkien varied his writing style depending on what artifact of Middle Earth the book itself was supposed to be. Most of his writing I've read is in a more dry, long-winded style used for mythology and heroic epics, but "There and Back Again" was penned in a more conversational, jovial voice by Mr. Bilbo himself, a flavor Tolkien used for children's tales. I much prefer The Hobbit's style, myself.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 08, 2012 - 5:00AM
#74
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Honestly I don't even really hate him per se, I just don't like how he's on some untouchable pedastel and has somehow come to define the fantasy genre to such an extent that all the cool races (:33) are referred to as the "freak races" and humans, short humans, fat humans and tall humans are considered the unspoken norm.
See, this is what I don't get...humans and the humanoid races are boring? And to be considered "cool", you have to be half demon, half dragon, half fey, half elemental or half something equally bizarre and supernatural?
It's like, if people like him that's cool, but I don't want Tolkien to be my only option when it comes to D&D.
Well that's fair enough. If WotC can provide rules for all of the races then fair play. If they can include them all in the PHB and not have it run to a humongous size (thereby making it cost extra) then, again, fair enough. I have no problem with having lots of races in lots of settings, for other people to use.
However, I do want to be able to strip them out. If I intend to run a pseudo-gothic world with mainly classic fantasy races, I do not want my players' party consisting of a faerie sprite sylph, a half kobold ogre-oid, a dragonborn, a fire genasi, a tiefling and a half drow half hagspawn. As I said before, it's the character's personality that makes them interesting. He doesn't need a bizarre race to be cool.
So why don't we have only a few core races in the PHB, and the extra races in their respective campaign setting sourcebooks? Eberron can have rules for the half-drow half-dragon warforge titans or whatever, while Realm of the Faeries can have rules for feyborn faerie sylph pixie spritelings, Greyhawk can have no extra rules (being base races only) and FR can have its tieflings, genasii and drow.
Everything expressed in this post is my opinion, and should be taken as such. I can not declare myself to be the supreme authority on all matters...even though I am right!
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9 months ago ::
Sep 08, 2012 - 5:16AM
#75
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Date Joined:
Nov 27, 2005
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Honestly I don't even really hate him per se, I just don't like how he's on some untouchable pedastel and has somehow come to define the fantasy genre to such an extent that all the cool races (:33) are referred to as the "freak races" and humans, short humans, fat humans and tall humans are considered the unspoken norm.
See, this is what I don't get...humans and the humanoid races are boring? And to be considered "cool", you have to be half demon, half dragon, half fey, half elemental or half something equally bizarre and supernatural?
Not necessarily, but something that hasn't been done in every single fantasy setting ever made. Like seriously, try making a game and using "You can play an elf or a dwarf (With real magic affinity / mining action and everything)!" as a selling point. Conversely, see how many people will buy a game exclusively because it lets them play a werebear or something similarly awesome."
Which admittedly isn't really Tolkien's fault obvi, but it's still engendered a disdain for his races.
So why don't we have only a few core races in the PHB, and the extra races in their respective campaign setting sourcebooks?
Because that just perpetuates the stereotype that those are the "correct" races. As you said, personality is what makes a character cool, why does it matter if he's an elf or a warforged?
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Copy effects work like a photocopy machine: you get a copy of the 'naked' card, NOT of what's on it.
Funny story:
InQuest Magazine (I think it was InQuest) had an oversized Chaos Orb which I totally rooked someone into allowing into a (non-sanctioned) game.
I had a proxy card that was a Mountain with "Chaos Orb" written on it. When I played it, my opponent cried foul:
Him: "WTF? a Proxy? no-one said anything about Proxies. Do you even own an actual Chaos Orb?"
Me: "Yes, but I thought it would be better to use a Proxy."
Him: "No way. If you're going to put a Chaos Orb in your deck you have to use your actual Chaos Orb."
Me: "*Sigh*. Okay."
I pulled out this huge Chaos Orb and placed it on the table. He tried to cry foul again but everyone else said he insisted I use my actual Chaos Orb and that was my actual Chaos Orb. I used it, flipped it and wiped most of his board.
Unsurprisingly, that only worked once and only because everyone present thought it was hilarious. 
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Hi guys! So, I'm a sort of returning player to Magic. I say sort of because as a child I had two main TCG's I liked. Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon. Some of my friends branched off in to Magic, and I bought two pre-made decks just to kind of fit in. Like I said, Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were what I really knew how to play. I have a extensive knowledge of deck building in those two TCG's. However, as far as Magic is concerned, I only ever used those two pre made decks. I know how the game is played, and I know general things, but now I want to get in the game for real. I want to begin playing it as a regular. My question is, are all cards ever released from the time of the inception of this game until present day fair game in a deck? Or are there special rules? Are some cards forbidden or restricted? Thanks guys, and I will gladly accept ANY help lol. 
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See, this is why RPJesus should be in charge of the storyline. The novel line would never have been cancelled if he had been running the show. Specifically the Slobad and Geth's Head talkshow he just described.
Not only was that an obligatory joke, it was an on-topic post that still managed to be off-topic due to thread derailment. RP Jesus does it again folks.
I think I'm gonna' start praying to Jesus... That's right, RPJesus, I'm gonna' be praying to you, right now.
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Please continue to make my time here on the forums fun and cause me to chuckle.
Amen.
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Seriously, that was amazing. I laughed my *ss off. Made my day, and I just woke up.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 08, 2012 - 5:37AM
#76
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Not necessarily, but something that hasn't been done in every single fantasy setting ever made. Like seriously, try making a game and using "You can play an elf or a dwarf (With real magic affinity / mining action and everything)!" as a selling point. Conversely, see how many people will buy a game exclusively because it lets them play a werebear or something similarly awesome."
So, are you trying to imply that the new D&D won't sell unless they add some weird, bizarre or exotic race in the base rules? I'm not convinced. Warhammer FRP only has the Tolkien Four (no half elves, half orcs, or anything) and that seems popular enough. People buy a game system/setting/whatever for more than just an option to play something bizarre. In fact, some people might even avoid settings because of it...I'm sure there are those of us who avoid Eberron because of the warforged.
Because that just perpetuates the stereotype that those are the "correct" races. As you said, personality is what makes a character cool, why does it matter if he's an elf or a warforged?
But they are the correct races! :P
Also, if WotC do that, people will think that those races, by default, exist in every setting, making it harder for people who don't want them to take them out. It'd make much more sense to include the weird races in the settings that have the weird races, while the base setting that doesn't have the weird races doesn't have stats for them.
You may want your bizarre half-something-exotic races, but I want my vanilla races, and while I have no problem with the others existing, I don't want them polluting the settings that I want to play. If those races are in the PHB, I want there to be a line that says "these races do not exist in the Whatever world". Or something in each source book that says "the following races appear in the Whatever world:", or something that let's the GM outlaw all exotic races simply by stating that it's a Whatever campaign.
Everything expressed in this post is my opinion, and should be taken as such. I can not declare myself to be the supreme authority on all matters...even though I am right!
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9 months ago ::
Sep 08, 2012 - 5:57AM
#77
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That's some clarification, Haldrik; I'm still trying to find differences, if any, among svartálfar, dökkálfar, and dwarfs.
Hi, I started to respond to your comment. But my post became lengthy and I wanted to include the information in another thread, here.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 08, 2012 - 7:14AM
#78
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Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2012
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Personally, I just don't get it. I can see playing dwarves, and elves, and halflings. Teiflings? Sorry, I just can't seem to get into playing a demonspawned humanoid. I might could be convinced to play a half-orc, half-ogre, or even a full version of either. I just don't see the draw in playing a dragonborn. It just makes a mockery of the game for me.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 08, 2012 - 7:22AM
#79
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Personally, I just don't get it. I can see playing dwarves, and elves, and halflings. Teiflings? Sorry, I just can't seem to get into playing a demonspawned humanoid. I might could be convinced to play a half-orc, half-ogre, or even a full version of either. I just don't see the draw in playing a dragonborn. It just makes a mockery of the game for me.
That's fine. You can play what you want. The point is, other people should be allowed to play what THEY want as well, and not everybody shares your preferences (or mine, or anybody else's), and they shouldn't be marginalized for doing so.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 08, 2012 - 7:29AM
#80
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Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2012
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But do we really need that many playable races out there? I can see where its a nice toolbag for a DM to build a world out of. But not every setting will allow all of these races. But if you publish them all in one place, people are going to want to force their DM to accept it because... well... its in the PHB, so it should be allowed.
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you loads
