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Switch to Forum Live View Please don't overrun the planet with Darkvision/blindvision critters
10 months ago  ::  Aug 24, 2012 - 8:31AM #1
dbmoore
Date Joined: Aug 5, 2008
Posts: 106

Ok so as our groups DM I was reading through all the monsters and bad guys in the Bestiary and suddenly it hit me. "How the heck are the surface races surviving at all in this world?"

If you take out the 5 evil or commoner humans in the bestiary there are only 4 creatures that DON'T have darkvision or blindsight/tremorsense! That's almost 90% of the things PCs have to fight against!

On the flip side the wonderful folk of the surface world or near surface (for you Dwarves).

> 0% have darkvison

> 50% have no vision aid at all!

Seems to me that one long dark winter is all it would take for the whole surface world to be whipped out. Heck even the drawbacks are unbalanced.

So a Drow comes to the surface to loot, pillage, get a tee shirt, etc...

At night Humans are straight out blind (without a light source) and he has a +5 to AC (total concealment) Drow has no negative effects.

Dawn comes up and bummer now the Drow has disadvantage on attacks (and that’s it)


Now don't get me wrong I don't want to start a super vision arms race here. I am asking WoTC to back it down the other way.
> Have creatures that live way underground like Drow and Mind Flayers have darkvision sure but give them a heavy price to pay if they get in sunlight.

> Near surface critters Goblins, Orcs, etc could have a smattering of low light vision but again don't go crazy.

> Undead and oozes and such should have some heightened sense maybe limited range blindsight etc...

> Surface folk and critters for the most part shouldn't have any vision aid



            

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10 months ago  ::  Aug 24, 2012 - 10:24AM #2
dragon82
Date Joined: Aug 9, 2012
Posts: 48
I can see where you're comming from here,tho I do see some logicstical issues arrising from which part of the dark their "from".



I for one love that feeling of inching through the darkness of the deep with a torch(or lantern) illuminating the way,the darkness has always held a speical fear for man and I believe thats how the devs see it.   
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10 months ago  ::  Aug 24, 2012 - 11:01AM #3
dbmoore
Date Joined: Aug 5, 2008
Posts: 106

Oh I agree with ya on the feeling of something watching from the dark that mankind always has. Great spooky effect but I just don't want to have it be overkill with 90% of the critters out there able to see you while you can't see them.

Actually Low light 30 ft isn't too bad but Darkvision 60 ft for so many creatures is heavy handed in my opinion.

The other thing I want avoid which so many versions of D&D eventually fall into is that as more non-human races become available to PCs (especially the ones with a lot of powers like darkvision) suddenly you can't find a Human PC to save your life. Heck even the standard elf or dwarf become pretty rare. It's not the players fault they just gravitate toward the races that are clearly superior and that’s when the planet gets unbalanced.

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10 months ago  ::  Aug 24, 2012 - 11:45AM #4
drzachary
Date Joined: Apr 29, 2010
Posts: 482
One thing to keep in mind is that low-light vision lets you see in pitch blackness, by DDN rules, and that 'dim light' doesn't grant a TON of bonuses -- in fact, I think it only allows you to make Stealth/Dex checks to hide.  
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10 months ago  ::  Aug 24, 2012 - 1:50PM #5
dbmoore
Date Joined: Aug 5, 2008
Posts: 106


      

Yep dim light isn't too bad. In fact it says it acts like your lightly obscured so only folks with talents that let them hide in in a lightly obscured space can really take advantage (AKA wood elf).

What I am more concerned with is anyone that doesn't have any vision aid (right now only humans, halflings, and 4 creatures in the whole bestiary) is totally hosed in darkness and everyone else (again 90% of the planet) is not.

You are considered blinded (Disadvantage to all your attacks, all attacks made on you have advantage, you can only move half speed, and since you can't see anyone, everyone has complete concealment so you have a +5 to your attacks assuming you can make out where they are because if you can't you aren't allowed to attack them at all)


Now I don't want this part changed it is actually quite realistic, being in complete darkness is tough I image for various reasons we've all experienced that fun.

What I don't like is that 90% of the planet doesn't have this problem so honestly natural selection should have whipped out the humans and poor hobbits a long time ago.

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10 months ago  ::  Aug 24, 2012 - 2:09PM #6
Tim_the_Enchanter68
Date Joined: May 6, 2007
Posts: 105

Aug 24, 2012 -- 8:31AM, dbmoore wrote:





Now don't get me wrong I don't want to start a super vision arms race here. I am asking WoTC to back it down the other way.
> Have creatures that live way underground like Drow and Mind Flayers have darkvision sure but give them a heavy price to pay if they get in sunlight.

> Near surface critters Goblins, Orcs, etc could have a smattering of low light vision but again don't go crazy.

> Undead and oozes and such should have some heightened sense maybe limited range blindsight etc...

> Surface folk and critters for the most part shouldn't have any vision aid



            





I agree fully with this.

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10 months ago  ::  Aug 24, 2012 - 2:35PM #7
Jenks
Date Joined: Apr 4, 2008
Posts: 2,497

Aug 24, 2012 -- 8:31AM, dbmoore wrote:

So a Drow comes to the surface to loot, pillage, get a tee shirt, etc...



I KNEW IT! That's what happened to all my tee shirts!
My two copper.



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10 months ago  ::  Aug 24, 2012 - 4:48PM #8
dbmoore
Date Joined: Aug 5, 2008
Posts: 106
Yes and blame those Deep Gnomes for all those socks that go missing.
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10 months ago  ::  Aug 24, 2012 - 5:07PM #9
DontEatRawHagis
Date Joined: Sep 20, 2010
Posts: 871
I hate to see a lot of creatures getting Disadvantages in the Sunlight. When Drow PCs come out the Disadvantage is going to hurt a lot of players. And we all know that Drow is coming eventually down the pipeline. Along with Two Scimitars. Even if its a few Player's Handbooks in the future.

As far as Darkvision goes I liked it when those races were just given Low light in 4e. Back in 3.5 I remember a feat that allowed Low Light to be exchanged for Darkvision, but I dont remember what it was.

All this talk about Light and Vision makes me want to play Zork. Beware of the Gru. 
Ant Farm
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10 months ago  ::  Aug 24, 2012 - 5:30PM #10
Tim_the_Enchanter68
Date Joined: May 6, 2007
Posts: 105

Aug 24, 2012 -- 5:07PM, DontEatRawHagis wrote:



All this talk about Light and Vision makes me want to play Zork. Beware of the Gru. 




"You are in Dark.  You are likely to be eaten by a grue."

Lol!

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