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11 months ago ::
Aug 24, 2012 - 8:37PM
#81
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In d&d dragons are a naturaly occuring creature which tend to embody natural elements or forces of nature. This is particularly true with the catastrophic dragon (blizzard, earthquake, etc).
Wheter or not elements being manifested in a strange way, in this case probably a breath weapon, constitutes as arcane or psionic should be left up to the DM. Although I don't see how this any actual significance on the game other than causing arguments over fluff.
You're arguing about fluff, which is stupid.
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11 months ago ::
Aug 24, 2012 - 8:45PM
#82
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Date Joined:
Apr 21, 2011
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i dissagree slightly
wizards should offer a core setting so that a DM doesn't need to skin their own universe if they don't want to. it's up to the DM if they want to use it or not.
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11 months ago ::
Aug 24, 2012 - 9:05PM
#83
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Given that this is a playtest, I feel that asking for a core setting is a bit much at this point.
I do agree that DMs should always have the option to reflavor things, but not be required to.
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11 months ago ::
Aug 24, 2012 - 9:13PM
#84
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Date Joined:
Apr 21, 2011
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Given that this is a playtest, I feel that asking for a core setting is a bit much at this point.
I do agree that DMs should always have the option to reflavor things, but not be required to.
agreed
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11 months ago ::
Aug 25, 2012 - 2:10AM
#85
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Date Joined:
Jan 11, 2012
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Dragons are arcane. Straight from the 3.5 MM1:
A Great Wyrm Blue Dragon can use a Spell-Like ability known as "Mirage Arcana." Additionally, a Mature Blue Dragon can cast spells as a 7th lvl (arcane) sorceror. Taken from the *Arcane* spell list. Not the Divine spell list or the Psionic spell list. Other chromatic dragons also cast spells as a sorceror and gain SLA's of Arcane spells.
Are you done yet, Haldick?
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11 months ago ::
Aug 25, 2012 - 10:45AM
#86
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Dragons are arcane. Straight from the 3.5 MM1:
A Great Wyrm Blue Dragon can use a Spell-Like ability known as "Mirage Arcana." Additionally, a Mature Blue Dragon can cast spells as a 7th lvl (arcane) sorceror. Taken from the *Arcane* spell list. Not the Divine spell list or the Psionic spell list. Other chromatic dragons also cast spells as a sorceror and gain SLA's of Arcane spells.
Are you done yet, Haldick?
As mentioned earlier, “spell-like abilities”, include Psionic. Compare the Mind Flayer Mind Blast, which is presumably Psionic in nature, but is called a “spell-like ability”.
Because the same spells can be on several lists, which list a spell happens to be on feels uncompelling. For example, a Cleric domain can cast just about any spell. Moreover the 3e Psion covers more-or-less the same spells as the Wizard covers.
If the Dragon had *any* special relationship to Arcane magic, the tradition would mention the word “Arcane” and define that special relationship. But there is no *special* relationship. Therefore Dragon heritage means nothing in terms of Arcane magic, specifically.
Finally, the Sorcerer spells are actual “spells” - the same spells that the Wizard class casts, with the same kind of components and requirements. The Sorcerer lacks “spell-like abilities”. So what the Sorcerer is doing has nothing to do with the spell-like effects that the Dragon is doing.
By contrast, Psionic magic is a spell-like ability. Truly the innate magic. And it is the same “spell-like ability” that the Dragon is also doing.
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11 months ago ::
Aug 25, 2012 - 11:32AM
#87
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Date Joined:
Apr 21, 2011
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sigh......
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11 months ago ::
Aug 25, 2012 - 12:59PM
#88
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Date Joined:
Oct 16, 2008
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@Haldrik
I've been reading a lot of your posts and I am not sure as to the motives behind them. I can come up with three reasons/
1) You truly love the Psionic classes, and you are trying to argue away a class that you see as in the way of the Psion. Both because it is using a similiar system and because if it were not in the base rules your Psionic classes might make it in. I could understand this to a degree, but you seem more determined to destroy than to replace and I'd say that if this is your reason it would be better served being open and honest.
2) You just truly don't get it. You see magic only under the context of "proto-science" and therefore can't understand how we see it differently. I met a guy like that once, he tried to argue with a guest speaker over a poem the speaker had written. It was over the description of the fog having a "cat-like tread" and they guy was arguing that fog doesn't have feet so it can't have a cat-like tread. If this is the case I'm not sure f there is a way to bridge the gaps in our understanding. Perhaps it would help to picture sorcerers as a "magical savant" after all autistic savants can pass that advanced testing thing you mentioned earlier in the thread if that is their gift.
3) You are a troll and just trying to get a rise out of people. If this is the case nothing we say will end this debate because for you the debate is the entire purpose. I truly hope this is not the case
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11 months ago ::
Aug 25, 2012 - 2:01PM
#89
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Why is it people think that sorcerer and psion cannot co exist? Paladin and Cleric have been doing it for several editions.
My two copper.
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11 months ago ::
Aug 25, 2012 - 2:35PM
#90
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Date Joined:
Feb 10, 2011
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My guess is it's one with a smattering of three.
He desperately wants the psion to be core, but since he knows it won't happen he's constructed a scenario where a class that is being made core: the sorcerer, into something that doesn't make sense, so that players who like that kind of thing should support him in getting the version of the class that "makes sense" into the core of the game.
Deep down though, he knows it won't work so instead of accepting it, he resorts to trolling.
So basically, don't feed him.
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