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Locked: Why I wouldn't recommend D&D Next to new players?
11 months ago  ::  Aug 20, 2012 - 8:01AM #11
RichTown
Date Joined: May 24, 2012
Posts: 55

Aug 20, 2012 -- 4:48AM, ShadeRaven wrote:

Funny, but in comparison to 3.5 and 4E, I have seen a lot more roleplay, character development, and "slowing down to enjoy the flowers" in Next already.

And this is for playtest sessions with characters they know they aren't keeping.

I was hoping to read some well thought out, unbiased thoughts of someone who's given these playtest packets a real shot, not the angry rumblings of someone clearly with an axe to grind.





Same here

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11 months ago  ::  Aug 20, 2012 - 8:09AM #12
Archon007
Date Joined: Apr 21, 2004
Posts: 313
The time you spend enjoying the world mostly belongs in the lap of your GM. If he/she is just running combat encounters and not fleshing out the experience no system will fix that.

I however, do agree with having to spend a lot of time researching min/Max builds in 4e. I don't feel the same way in next with less hit points and a lower baseline I really don't feel I have to min/max anymore.
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11 months ago  ::  Aug 20, 2012 - 8:10AM #13
Talascoma
Date Joined: Jun 16, 2008
Posts: 7
Huh, I played every edition of D&D and AD&D, and the assumptions you make of older editions are not very accurate at all.  You talk of how 3rd ed was suppossed to be streamlined version from 2nd ed.  You do realize you are way, way, way, off.  3rd ed, was to get rid of the 200 + books that was making up 2nd ed.  That was what they meant by streamlined. 

Example in 2ed, you wanted to play a melee charcter type.  Ok, you start with the PHB or Oriental Adventures to get a general calss, say a melee class.  Then you went to one of the varied Class handbooks.  Lets see, fighter handbook, ranger handbook, bard handbook, paladin handbook, druid handbook, or thief handbook.  Oh wait, you also had the complete gladiator handbook, Barbarian's handbook, and Ninja handbook.  Now, add in that every race had a handbook that contained some melee classes.  So complete book of Dwarves, Elves, gnomes and halflings, and humanoids to name a few. 

If that wasnt enough choices for your melee type, there was also certain realm books that contained choices as well.  The Forgotten Realms had one that was made up entirely of Holy Warriors for each of their gods.  

Now, once you finally picked one type of melee you wanted to play from a handbook, lets say we are playing close to the end of 2nd edition. So add in player combat and tactics book and player skill option book, just to add a little flair and way more rules to use. 

Those are just for melee class types to pick from.  Want to play a magic user?  I have 4 different wizard spell compendium books with small print to leaf through to pick spells, or 3 Preist compendium books. 

We still havent even touched magic items for your character yet either if jumping in at higher levels.  So flip through all 4 Encyclopedia of magic books, Arms and Equipment guide, Tome of magic, book of artifacts (if high level), and begin to pick a few items.  Again, consult certain realm books and class handbooks, as they contained items as well specific for a class or a realm.   

All the different books by the end was too much for anyone new to jump right in and play.  And keep in mind, I left out quite a few complete books, the stupid complete wizard and cleric spell card sets, and barely mentioned all the different realms stuff, Planescape, Forgotten Realms, GrayHawk, Dark Sun, Dragonlance, Lankmar, and that be a dragon box set realm.  Which, each box set had extra classes, magic items, and rules in them. Let alone magic items from adventures and adventure box sets like Undermountain, Undermountain II, the rod of seven parts, return to tomb of horrors, temple of elemental evil, and such.  

You talk about how you now spend a few hours looking through forums for builds and character designs?  If you had a gaming group with all the books from 2nd ed, it could take days of researching books to come up with a character.  Heaven forbid you died at a higher level and had to create a new character at lvl 17.   3rd edition did streamline the game, but not the way you are trying to portray it.  It wasnt created to make combat and only combat streamlined.  It was created to get rid of the how many books made up 2nd ed.
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11 months ago  ::  Aug 20, 2012 - 8:19AM #14
tanstaafl48
Date Joined: Jun 5, 2011
Posts: 45
So we combine an unnecessarily strident opinion with an unnecessarily combatative tone. Super helpful.

Is it really that hard to grasp that maybe some people prefer more combat? Or don't see combat/roleplaying as mutually exclusive? Why does it always have to be the case that the balance of factors you like just happens to be the perfect mix for everyone if only the peons would just see your enlightened ways?

More deeply, what is the point of this post? It's content/tone/length ensure that it will convince exactly no one of your opinion. At best it'll be written off as another bitter person, regardless of any validity in your point. At worst it'll just start arguments. Why even bother?
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11 months ago  ::  Aug 20, 2012 - 8:32AM #15
sciborg3
Date Joined: Oct 12, 2007
Posts: 743
I stopped reading the OP at the point playing a game in which you pretend to be an elf was compared to rape.
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11 months ago  ::  Aug 20, 2012 - 8:52AM #16
Svempa
Date Joined: Oct 5, 2008
Posts: 690
Ahh... Yes. Let us all pretend to sit around a table and sip sweet mead, and then pretend that we thought that was a lot of fun, because everyone else is pretending to have fun too!
Let us dress in styrofoam armor bedeckered with garlands of duct tape and beat one another with live RPG weapons!
If you want to sip sweet mead, I suggest you go out to a real bar in your town. Not bearing your persona of a limber elf with high dexterity. Leave your lute and your robin hood hat at home. Please.
You seem to be longing for the D&D sessions of your childhood. But they will never come back. *sniff* never...  
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11 months ago  ::  Aug 20, 2012 - 9:00AM #17
baronspam
Date Joined: Jun 13, 2010
Posts: 335
At this point I wouldn't recomment dnd next either, not because I don't like it, but because its a massively incomplete playtest.  You wouldn't throw a newbie at something that is the the first 5 levels of 1/3 of a system.  While I think it is fine to say "I don't like this particular take on this rule" or "I think this is favoring a particular playstyle" etc, trying to judge Next at this point is like trying to judge a meal having only eaten the salad and the bread.

 
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11 months ago  ::  Aug 20, 2012 - 9:02AM #18
LordofKhyber
Date Joined: Jul 29, 2009
Posts: 1,033
Because it's not worth getting into? WotC will just be planning 6E two months after the release of 5E.
Things that 5E needs to do:
-Make the use of battlemaps/miniatures the default.
-Make healing fun, magical AND non-magical needs to be an option. Long live the Warlord!
-Make magic items feel magic/mythical. I don't want a dagger +1, I want STING.
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11 months ago  ::  Aug 20, 2012 - 9:06AM #19
wrecan
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Date Joined: Jun 23, 2005
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Aug 20, 2012 -- 9:02AM, LordofKhyber wrote:

Because it's not worth getting into? WotC will just be planning 6E two months after the release of 5E.



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11 months ago  ::  Aug 20, 2012 - 9:10AM #20
baronspam
Date Joined: Jun 13, 2010
Posts: 335

Aug 20, 2012 -- 9:02AM, LordofKhyber wrote:

Because it's not worth getting into? WotC will just be planning 6E two months after the release of 5E.





I don't think that is really fair.   4th ed has been out for years now, there is a huge amount of material published for it, it is still being supported, and we are probably 1.5 to 2 years away from a finished new ruleset in hand.  I don't think that you can make a reasonable arguement that this is a money grab.

 

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