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10 months ago ::
Aug 19, 2012 - 1:27PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Sep 10, 2007
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I have an issue with the Turn Undead spell. Why is it limited to creatures with 25 Max HP and less? As a Cleric, I can't step up and try to hold back a Wight in a party of level 3+ PCs. So, a classic staple of the Cleric class is of no value beyond level 2?
I understand not everyone wants to be forced to have Turn Undead (ie: War Clerics). No problem with that at all. I like to play Clerics in all manners. But, if I want to be a pious, healer type that channels the power of my god to smite the undead.... Sorry?
Will WotC bring up more advanced forms of Turn Undead Spells? If so, that might be fine. It would take out my ability to use those spell slots for higher level spells I could use. I would like to see the Turn Undead spell scale with level like Damage spells (ie: max HP affects goes up).
How fast should it go up? I do not know the scaling of max HP on monsters. Taking the max HP of the undead in the Blingdenstone adventure:
Skeleton: 9 HP (2d8) Max HP: 16 - I can affect with Turn Undead
Zombie: 9 HP (2d8) Max HP: 16 - I can affect with Turn Undead
Wight: 27 HP (6d8) Max HP: 48 - I can NOT affect with Turn Undead
If Turn Undead scales like these monsters max HP, maybe start Level 1 at 15 HP and add 15 HP per level. Or, change it to Hit Dice affected like 2 HD at Level 1 and +3 HD per 2 levels. This way the Turn Undead spell still is effective at higher levels. It would also give the Cleric more options to burn higher level spell slots for a level 1 Turn Undead in case they run into a large dungeon of undead.
Edit: To clarify that the spell reads against MAX HP, not current HP.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 19, 2012 - 2:06PM
#2
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I have an issue with the Turn Undead spell. Why is it limited to creatures with 25 HP and less?
So you can't just go 'oh, undead' *poof* encounter over. You have to fight them some first.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 19, 2012 - 2:07PM
#3
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Date Joined:
Jan 14, 2012
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Also, I may be one of the few players. But, I really liked the idea of Turn Undead as part of the Channel Divinity aspect of Clerics. It was very limiting and sometimes useless if it was the only level 1 option.
Totally agree with you Sol_Majere that either the spell needs to scale with level or that a higher level option needs to be made available later. I would prefer that the spell scaled with level because that would weaken undead vs. Clerics. I hate the Undead.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 19, 2012 - 2:18PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Sep 10, 2007
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I have an issue with the Turn Undead spell. Why is it limited to creatures with 25 HP and less?
So you can't just go 'oh, undead' *poof* encounter over. You have to fight them some first.
No problem here having to fight undead. I am not talking about auto-destroy low HD undead like past editions. I just want to see the Cleric be able to hold back undead that is much lower level than the party so we can fight the higher HD undead.
Here is an possible encounter:
Walk into a fight with a Vampire leader directing Ghouls and Wights. As the spell reads now, the cleric can not stop any of these undead at all. (Assuming Ghouls are 3 HD and Vampires are higher HD than Wights).
With this type of encounter, where a classic Cleric shines, they can not perform a key ability that has existed for as long as I have played D&D.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 19, 2012 - 2:31PM
#5
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Date Joined:
Dec 21, 2011
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I think that Clerics should have a chance at turning higher level undead. I also would like turn undead and heal to be two abilities that work using channel divinity. Give starting clerics channel divinity x2. Make then choose when to use each specific version.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 19, 2012 - 2:55PM
#6
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Date Joined:
Aug 13, 2012
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I like the idea of more options for channel divinity. Giving clerics some flexibility has always been good in my book. I'm surprised that domain features are not tied to channel divinity. Maybe this will change or be an optionlater on.
I would like the turn undead ability to have a hp threshold based on current hp. Beating down a powerful undead so the cleric can turn him would be a cool fight mechanic.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 20, 2012 - 12:32PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Apr 23, 2005
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It is kind of silly that Turn Undead doesn't work on vampires at all now. That's kind of the classic fantasy use of the power.
"Edison didn't succeed the first time he invented Benjamin Franklin, either." Albert the Alligator, Walt Kelly's Pogo Sunday BookThe Core Coliseum: test out your 4e builds and fight to the death.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 20, 2012 - 1:44PM
#8
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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It is kind of silly that Turn Undead doesn't work on vampires at all now. That's kind of the classic fantasy use of the power.
Could be worse.
First time I tried to use it in an earlier playtest, we found out that skeletons were immune to it.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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10 months ago ::
Aug 20, 2012 - 3:15PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Feb 10, 2007
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My problem with the spell is that is a spell. I'd rather the cleric be granted a limited amount of divine energy devoted to healing or turning undead or something else entirely that they use up. this might be recharged with a short rest and expending a hit die.
As a spell, the most limited of the cleric's, resources it's about useless in a lot of the situations I'd be putting players into.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 20, 2012 - 3:28PM
#10
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I would like the turn undead ability to have a hp threshold based on current hp. Beating down a powerful undead so the cleric can turn him would be a cool fight mechanic.
I like this. Get in some good hits and then turn the weakened creature. I would be good with that.
However, turn undead, regardless of it being a spell or Channel Divinity Ability, should scale with the Cleric's level.
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