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8 months ago ::
Oct 13, 2012 - 12:54AM
#221
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Date Joined:
Apr 22, 2001
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Because while mechanics are almost always consistent with description (and there is actually more description than in prior editions), they are not tied to the description.
We must not be reading the same books.
Or maybe you just aren't all that creative, or good at lateral thinking.
Ok your right, I concede, Im not a creative person and there is nothing wrong with 4th edition, the 2nd most popular game on the market that was 1st for 4 decades until this version was released. Me and the rest of the uncreative people are going to find something else to do now, clearly role-playing isnt for us.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 13, 2012 - 6:08AM
#222
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Date Joined:
Nov 17, 2011
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Clearly Pathfinder's main rules outselling the D&D core PHB (which has been out for over twice as long) is due to the fact that Pathfinder is the game that does the most to encourage Roleplaying on the market. Not FATE, not World of Darkness, not any of the other systems that put roleplaying front and center. Nope. Pathfinder.
Seriously, lets not use sales to measure how much roleplaying is involved in a game. I've played 3E heavily and 4E heavily and 3E was much worse for roleplaying than 4E. It's like... 3E actively impedes roleplaying, 4E is rather neutral on the entire matter.
You can complain that 4E doesn't even try to be simulationist, and it doesn't, but simulationism isn't roleplaying. Most of the time, it gets in the way of roleplaying.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 13, 2012 - 8:45AM
#223
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Clearly Pathfinder's main rules outselling the D&D core PHB (which has been out for over twice as long) is due to the fact that Pathfinder is the game that does the most to encourage Roleplaying on the market. Not FATE, not World of Darkness, not any of the other systems that put roleplaying front and center. Nope. Pathfinder.
Seriously, lets not use sales to measure how much roleplaying is involved in a game. I've played 3E heavily and 4E heavily and 3E was much worse for roleplaying than 4E. It's like... 3E actively impedes roleplaying, 4E is rather neutral on the entire matter.
You can complain that 4E doesn't even try to be simulationist, and it doesn't, but simulationism isn't roleplaying. Most of the time, it gets in the way of roleplaying.
The major difference as I see it is that 4e's roleplay is more freeform...your character can be who or what you want it to be with very little guidelines. Older editions, somewhat force you into certain things, like a paladin being LG for example. If you're someone who relied on the system to provide that baseline to you, 4e could feel to be lacking.
That's really I think what I was trying to say a few days ago, and it came out in a pretty snarky manner.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 13, 2012 - 10:29AM
#224
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Date Joined:
Apr 22, 2001
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Clearly Pathfinder's main rules outselling the D&D core PHB (which has been out for over twice as long) is due to the fact that Pathfinder is the game that does the most to encourage Roleplaying on the market. Not FATE, not World of Darkness, not any of the other systems that put roleplaying front and center. Nope. Pathfinder.
Seriously, lets not use sales to measure how much roleplaying is involved in a game. I've played 3E heavily and 4E heavily and 3E was much worse for roleplaying than 4E. It's like... 3E actively impedes roleplaying, 4E is rather neutral on the entire matter.
You can complain that 4E doesn't even try to be simulationist, and it doesn't, but simulationism isn't roleplaying. Most of the time, it gets in the way of roleplaying.
I think I was just trying to point out that after 25 years of role-playing in every system under the sun, lack of creativíty is not the reason that suddenly the one and only system on planet Earth in which role-playing is an issue is the result of my inability to be creative.
In Mike Mearls own words at PAX 2012 he described the issues with 4th edition and acknowledged that role-playing was a problem. A confirmation, vindication and ultimatly an indication of what 5th edition won't be... aka, nothing like 4th edition. So in short, the D&D fans win.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 13, 2012 - 12:04PM
#225
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Date Joined:
Nov 30, 2010
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Nope, Mike Mearls is being PR BSing people, he is saying what 4e haters want to hear to please them, infact i won't be surprised the lack of support of 4e to instead reprint older edition books is another way to please 4e haters.
It's like if i humillate, bully and punch my highschool best friend during collage, to please my junior high friends that stoped being my friends after i started highschool.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 13, 2012 - 2:46PM
#226
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Date Joined:
Apr 22, 2001
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Nope, Mike Mearls is being PR BSing people, he is saying what 4e haters want to hear to please them, infact i won't be surprised the lack of support of 4e to instead reprint older edition books is another way to please 4e haters.
It's like if i humillate, bully and punch my highschool best friend during collage, to please my junior high friends that stoped being my friends after i started highschool.
I don't really care why he does it, though I presume your totaly wrong and he's doing it because he understands the difference between faire weather fans and the responsibility he has to 4 decade old legacy. Suffice to say, he isn't planning to do it, he is already doing it and looking at 5th edition as it is today you could say its a done deal.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 13, 2012 - 2:58PM
#227
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Date Joined:
Nov 30, 2010
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yeah, because staying to old traditions is always the better options...oh wait, i know about history...is NEVER a better option
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8 months ago ::
Oct 13, 2012 - 3:05PM
#228
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Date Joined:
Apr 22, 2001
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yeah, because staying to old traditions is always the better options...oh wait, i know about history...is NEVER a better option
We aren't talking about world history, we are talking about a game which encompasses an experiance on which a legacy was built. This isn't a 2012 Camero re-invented for the modern age, this is a 75 mustang that needs a new coat of paint, we don't need Ford pulling out the engine and replacing it with a hybrid V4 to save the enviroment, because you can call it a classic mustang to your hearts content, but the moment you changed it, it died.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 13, 2012 - 4:24PM
#229
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Date Joined:
Nov 30, 2010
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Is more like staying playing Atari or Colecovision videogames on 2012..., it's kinda cute as a novelty at a bargain price (like 1 or 2 bucks), but it's not something we would prefer over newer games and something we won't be paying full price.
And btw, if i ever want a 75 mustang, it would be just for the chasis (metal, not plastic fiber crap), engines back then spended alot more gas and gas is way too expensive now to be wasting it...also alot of things like sound system, electric doors, having the battery on the side of the wheel so it can't be stolen that easly, a a/c that is worth a damn (weather here can get +50C on summer).
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8 months ago ::
Oct 13, 2012 - 4:47PM
#230
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Nope, Mike Mearls is being PR BSing people, he is saying what 4e haters want to hear to please them, infact i won't be surprised the lack of support of 4e to instead reprint older edition books is another way to please 4e haters.
It's like if i humillate, bully and punch my highschool best friend during collage, to please my junior high friends that stoped being my friends after i started highschool.
They're simply selling out to what they think will generate more revenue. At the end of the day it's /not/ about design philosophy, it's about the benjamins, pure and simple. I'm going to laugh when 5e flops because the pathfinder people stay with pathfinder, and the 4e hard core stay with 4e. 5e will /not/ re-unite the fan base under one brand again.
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