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Aug 30, 2012 -- 2:22PM, KWScott wrote:

To me that says the Wielder of the Tower Shield had a Lot more Benefit from its protection than his opponent did... Otherwise it wouldn't have gone down in history as one of the primary reasons the Roman Legion was so successful...

To me that says when a large number of disciplined soldiers form a wall of overlapping shields, they become a force with which to reckoned, albeit a slow moving one. As individual fighters, their cumbersome tower shields becomes a liability if they mean to do anything other than defend themselves.

Now regarding that formation of soldiers, there is a smattering of 'facing' rules in the latest play-test rules.

"A target with half cover has a +2 bonus to AC and Dexterity saving throws, but only against attacks and effects that originate on the opposite side of the cover."

"A target with three-quarters cover has a +5 bonus to AC and Dexterity saving throws, but only against attacks and effects that originate on the opposite side of the cover."

Applying these rules to large shields and towers shields actually changes nothing for individual fighters. The cover provided by large shields and tower shields are still 'portable' and protect fighters from any direction, exactly as shields work now.

When it comes to Roman Empire formation fighting, however, we're in luck. The facing distinction of these play-test rules can interact with cover-granting shields to replicate their tactic with a simple mechanic.

Sure, we can either say "to each DM their own" when it comes to house-ruling shield walls, but where's the fun in that? Again, we're killing time here until 5th edition is released.

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When two or more adjacent allies overlap large shields or tower shields against attacks and effects that originate on the opposite side of their wall, the cover bonus provided to adjacent opponents falls from three-quarters to half cover and from half cover to none (depending on the shield).

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What this accomplishes is three-fold. First, the front line shield users can make attacks against adjacent opponents with superior 'unified' cover (as the Romans would have done with their short swords and spears). Second, fighters with reach weapons can strike over the heads of front line shield users without the both-ways cover bonuses applying to their attacks (while also remaining inaccessible). Third, the overlapping shields create an 'anvil' wall against which a wave of 'hammer' attackers can drive their opponents. Such a shield wall may also offer resistance or immunity to bull rushes and similar forced movement.

Armor and Shields, a Counterproposal:

 Here's my final version of Angrygodofmilk's original proposal. We wouldn't be here if we thought the current version in the playtest packet didn't suck. I started with his proposal because I thought it had merit. I've made the modification I felt appropriate for the reasons I've stated elsewhere in this thread and summarized in the post above.

* Characters with a strength of 17 or greater may reduce the speed penalty from armor by 5 feet. Those with a strength of 20 may reduce the speed penalty by an additional 5 feet. 

Armor & Shield Descriptions:                                                                               

Leather: Made from heavy leather. Provides nominally more protection than Padded, but can be stylin’ if constructed by an armorer with fashion sense.

Studded Leather: This is leather armor with key points reinforce with metal studs and spikes. Can also be stylin’ when properly made, but definitely have a more Goth/cyberpunk vibe.

Hardened Leather/Cuir Bouille: Like studded leather, but with plates of leather that have been boiled in wax or rawhide sewn in to reinforce key vulnerable areas. Style potential still high, but bordering on “Real” armor potential.

Chain Shirt/Brigandine: Interlinked rings of metal (either the western version or the Persian versions), or small metal plates riveted between two layers of cloth or leather. Lower armor class because it only covers the vital areas, but it does cover the vital areas. Can be worn under normal clothing and easily concealed.

Breastplate: Main body armor, made from solid pieces (or no more than a couple articulated pieces) of metal.  Could be a the western European armor worn from the 14th through 18th centuries or the Greek and Roman muscle cuirass. Both shiny and stylin’. Filigree  and gilt and engraving to make a real statement.

Chainmail: Same construction as the chainmail shirt, but covering the extremities. Very high function points, but low style potential without throwing some heraldic garb over it.

Scalemail/Lamellar: Small overlapping metal plates sewn or laced onto a heavy leather substrate. Can look like fish scales, and if you do it like they do in Rokugan, can be very aesthetically pleasing. (Here’s where Japanese armor falls)

Half Plate: A breastplate with some, but not complete protection for the extremities. Examples could be Renaissance plate with pauldrons, tassets, and cuisse, but lacking armor on the lower extremities. Also covered by this would be 14thC transitional armor from the west consisting of articulated plate for the extremities, but using a “Coat of Plates” (essentially a type of brigandine armor for the main body), Roman Lorica Segmentata, or even classical Greek armor with a muscle cuirass, greaves, and vambraces. Take that last one and doll it up for the ultimate expression of homoerotic style in beaten metal.

Full Plate: The classic head to toe Knight in Shining Armor from the 15^th century and beyond. Encased from head to toe in shiny, articulated, metal. Etchings, glit, and filigree for maximal style.

Buckler: Small shield no more than 12 inches in diameter designed for use when fighting with finesse weapons, and can be used as a finesse weapon itself. It is agile enough to provide extra protection in the hands of a proficient user. The stats shown presume a wooden shield; double the cost for a metal shield, or standard multipliers for special materials.

Shield: A Norman or Greek round shields, or the classical medieval heater shield. The shield is a useful defense in melee, and large enough to provide some protection against missile weapons. The stats shown presume a wooden shield; double the cost for a metal shield, or standard multipliers for special materials. These shields may be used as martial weapons.

Masterwork: Any armor or shield may be masterwork. A set of armor or shield must be masterwork to be able to be enchanted. Armor and shields must be masterwork at the time of their creation and cannot have the quality added post-manufacture. Any item created from one of the special materials listed below must be masterwork. Masterwork adds 150gp to the cost of the item. Masterwork armors add 1 to the maximum dexterity mod addition to AC for the armor. Masterwork shields see no particular benefit other than the ability to be enchanted.
 

*Special Materials:

Adamantine: This ultra-hard metal adds to the quality of a weapon or suit of armor. Any Medium or Heavy Armor or Shield may be made Adamantine. Heavy Armors and Shields will reduce the damage of any attack that hits by 2 points. Medium Armor, and Bucklers will likewise reduce the damage taken, but only by 1 point per attack. Price will be the (base price + masterwork) x 5.

Dark Wood: This rare magic wood is as hard as normal wood but very light. Any shield may be made with Dark wood. Such a shield will cut the weight of the item in half. The cost for a dark wood shield will be (base price + masterwork) x 2

Dragon Hide: This is leather made from the near magical skin of dragons. Any light armor may be made from dragon hide. Such armor reduces the weight of the armor by half, and gives the wearer resistance to the energy type associated with the dragon from which the hide was taken. The cost for dragon hide armor will be (base cost + masterwork) x 5.

Dragon Scale: The very scales of a dragon can be worked by a master smith to produce Medium and Heavy armors that will increase the armor class of the base armor by 1 and confer resistance to the energy type associated with the type of dragon from which the scales were harvested. The cost of dragon scale armor will be (base cost + masterwork) x 5

Mithral: This is a very rare silvery, glistening metal that is lighter than iron but just as hard. Medium and Heavy armors and shields made from mithral halve the weight of the item, making medium mithral armors useable by those proficient with light armor, and heavy mithral armors useable by those proficient with medium armors. Additionally any speed penalty is reduced by 5 feet. Cost for any Mithral armor or shield will be (base cost + masterwork) x 10.

* An item may only have one type of special material applied to it.

Aug 31, 2012 -- 9:30AM, Chaosmancer wrote:

I guess I'm asking "Did I miss something?"

Yes... the point.
The important thing, when thinking about the current playtest rules is that for the sake of Cover, the stationary object, in this case the Tree, is between the two people and could, potentially provide cover to either or both from the other. As it is a facingless system, it doesn't matter which direction either person is facing in, because what direction they're facing in is undefined.