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10 months ago ::
Aug 17, 2012 - 12:25AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Mar 30, 2007
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Keep all armours relevant at all levels of proficiency.
Are you going to use Dex caps on Medium armour? Fine. Great even. Now do it wherever it can be applied. No half steps. Embrace the mechanic universally to create meaningful differences between armour types. Same goes for speed penalties. Same goes for disadvantage armours.
In this latest playtest, WotC have fallen back to their old ways by making lower AC armours functionally useless once characters have even a little gold in their pockets...by 2nd level. This can be easily avoided. Why are banded and splint exactly the same? Was this a mistake? Regardless, fuse them together. They both just became Plated Coat. Sorted, moving on.
Chainmail is superior to dragon scale? Why is dragon scale even on the regular equipment list? Have all campaign settings suddenly become lousy with dragons, and, for that matter, displacer beasts? No, introduce special armour materials, like dragonscale and mithral, separately from armour types. If not right away, then make Special Materials one of those 'modules' I keep reading about.
WotC has talked a lot about bringing back the old as the new. Prove it with armour in addition to everything else. As players, armour can be one of our favourite choices in the game. It can largely define how our characters look. Give us meaningful options for this choice. Nothing is final right now, which is good. Please pay more attention to the subject of armour next time.
All right, I feel that criticism is largely pointless unless it comes with an alternate suggestion. For that, see below.
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Editorial History (23 September 2012):
-Added 'shield wielder' distinction to the ranged cover provided by shields.
Editorial History (09 September 2012):
-Added provision for one-quarter cover and stacking cover rules.
-Changed the AC bonus for small shields.
-Changed how cover works for all shields.
-Changed how Shield Wall Fighting works.
Editorial History (30 August 2012):
-Added provision for shield wall fighting with large and towers shields.
Editorial History (26 August 2012):
-Changed the price of leaf armour.
-Changed the properties of adamantine armour.
-Changed speed penalty reduction based on Strength score.
Editorial History (25 August 2012):
-Added dark wood to the list of special materials.
-Added provision for dragonscale full plate, large, and tower shields.
-Added rules for masterwork armour and shields.
-Changed the max Dex properties of leaf armour.
-Changed the properties of adamantine armour.
-Changed the properties of bucklers and small shields.
Editorial History (22 August 2012):
-Changed the properties of bucklers and small shields.
Editorial History (20 August 2012):
-Added mithral impact to chain shirt, chainmail, breastplate, and plated coat.
Editorial History (19 August 2012):
-Added speed penalty reduction note based on Strength score.
-Changed 'Plate Coat' to 'Plated Coat', describing banded/splint better.
-Swapped hide with chain shirt to create a light 'leather' class of armour.
-Swapped breastplate with ring to create a heavy 'plate' class of armour.
-Swapped chainmail with scale mail to reflect differences in protection.
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Armour / Price / Armor Class (AC) / Speed / Stealth / Weight
Light (Leather) Armour
Padded / 5 gp / 11 + Dex mod. (max 5) / — / — / 10 lbs.
Leather / 10 gp / 12 + Dex mod. (max 4) / — / — / 15 lbs.
Studded leather / 25 gp / 13 + Dex mod. (max 3) / — / — / 20 lbs.
Hide coat / 50 gp / 14 + Dex mod. (max 2) / — / — / 25 lbs.
Medium (Linked) Armour
Chain shirt / 50 gp / 13 + Dex mod. (max 4) / –5 feet / — / 25 lbs.
Chainmail / 100 gp / 14 + Dex mod. (max 3) / –5 feet / — / 30 lbs.
Ringmail / 150 gp / 15 + Dex mod. (max 2) / –5 feet / Disadvantage / 35 lbs.
Scale mail / 200 gp / 16 + Dex mod. (max 1) / –5 feet / Disadvantage / 40 lbs.
Heavy (Plate) Armour
Breastplate / 200 gp / 15 + Dex mod. (max 3) / –5 feet / Disadvantage / 35 lbs.
Plated coat / 500 gp / 16 + Dex mod. (max 2) / –5 feet / Disadvantage / 40 lbs.
Half-plate / 1,000 gp / 17 + Dex mod. (max 1) / –10 feet / Disadvantage / 45 lbs.
Full plate / 2,000 gp / 18 / –10 feet / Disadvantage / 50 lbs.
Masterwork armour grants a max Dex modifier of +1.
Shields / Price / Armor Class (AC) / Speed / Stealth / Weight
Buckler / 3 gp / +1 / — / — / 3 lbs.
Small shield / 5 gp / +1 or ¼ cover / — / — / 5 lbs.
Large shield / 10 gp / +1 or ½ cover / –5 feet / Disadvantage / 10 lbs.
Tower shield / 20 gp / +2 or ¾ cover / –10 feet / Disadvantage / 20 lbs.
Presumes wooden shields. Price and weight for metal shields x2.
Masterwork shields allow objects or weapons to be held in the same hand without losing AC bonus.
Buckler: AC bonus against melee attacks only. Can be wielded as a finesse weapon using club statistics without losing AC bonus.
Small Shield: AC bonus against melee attacks only. Grants shield wielder one-quarter cover against ranged attacks. Can be wielded as a martial weapon using shield statistics without losing AC bonus.
Large Shield: AC bonus against melee attacks only. Grants shield wielder half cover against ranged attacks. Can be used in a shield wall.
Tower Shield: AC bonus against melee attacks only. Grants shield wielder three-quarters cover against ranged attacks. Can be used in a shield wall.
Shield Wall Fighting: When two or more adjacent allies overlap large shields or tower shields against attacks and effects that originate from the opposite side of their contiguous wall, the AC bonus against melee attacks improves to the cover bonus provided against ranged attacks.
Characters with Strength 20 reduce speed penalties of armour and shields by 5.
Special Materials
Adamantine (Medium Armours, Heavy Armours, and Shields)
Damage against wearer reduced by 1d6. Price x20.
Dark Wood (Scale Mail, Heavy Armours, and Shields)
No disadvantage. Weight /2. Price x5.
Dragonscale (Scale Mail, Heavy Armours, and Shields)
AC +1. Resistance to dragon energy type. Full plate grants immunity to dragon energy type. Heavy and tower shields grant resistance, but no additional AC or cover bonus. Price x10.
Leaf (Light Armours)
Max Dex modifier +2. Weight /2. Price x10.
Mithral (Medium Armours, Heavy Armours, and Shields)
Max Dex modifier +1. No disadvantage. Reduce speed penalty –5 feet. Weight /2. Price x10.
If the speed penalty is removed from a chain shirt, chainmail, breastplate, or plated coat through the use of mithral as a special material, they fall into the next lower category and can be worn without penalty by characters with the appropriate armour proficiency.
Cover
Cover represents solid objects that stand between you and your target. Walls, pillars, and trees are common examples of things that can provide. The cover granted by an obstacle and the cover provided by a shield stack together. As such, a tower shield wielder standing behind a fallen log gains total cover against ranged attacks.
One-Quarter Cover: A target has one-quarter when approximately one-quarter of target is behind an interposing obstacle. The obstacle might be a fallen log, a small piece of furniture, or an open door frame beyond which the target is standing.
A target with one-quarter cover has a +1 bonus to AC and Dexterity saving throws, but only against attacks and effects that originate on the opposite side of the cover.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 17, 2012 - 3:56AM
#2
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There's a Khmer Rouge sized graveyard of fantasy heartbreakers that made the same kind of changes to armour that you're suggesting.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 17, 2012 - 4:43AM
#3
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Not bad, like how it looks.
Don't think a small shield should give disadvantage to Stealth though.
Other than that I like it.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 17, 2012 - 5:57AM
#4
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First I like this more than the current official version, especially 4 Shield types though I'd not impose Disadvantage to a basic Shield or it will be obsolete in favour of Bucklers. There are other issues: Ringmail is "Heavy Armour" and yet allows a great Dex bonus than most Mediums, feels nonsensical to me especially as some of the Mediums share the same disadvantages. Infact Medium and Heavy are just headings in your chart - there's nothing really that differentiates them. Even the actual weight of Chainmail and Breastplate match some of the heavies. I'd leave Plate Coat as "Splint or Banded" incidentally, there's enough "Plate" 
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10 months ago ::
Aug 17, 2012 - 6:13AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Sep 25, 2006
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I'm not sure about this system, I am not saying the current one is great but in your system it seems that some armors are functionay not worth buying. I play primarily fighters and I usually put dex as my secondary stat instead of con, as not being hit is better than a few extra hit points. But that is another discussion all together. I would usually have a 14 or more dex giving me a least a 2 point bonus. In your system I max armor at plate coat and save myself 1,500 gold.
I guess my point is this, dexterity in your system makes all your armors the same with regards to high dex characters, light is AC 16, medium is AC 17 and heavy is AC 18. But there is a distinct drawback to having the second half of your medium and heavy lists. It seems that certain armors would not be used. Dex should not make all armors the same. Some stepping is needed to keep this from happening.
I agree that special materials should be kept off to the side and simple become a modification to the base armor. Making those types of armors rare and special and allowing the individual GM to decide if they are common in a specific location or world.
It's a sad state of affairs when DMs measure their success in total party kills and players in the damage they deal.
Red
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10 months ago ::
Aug 17, 2012 - 10:24AM
#6
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I'm not sure about this system, I am not saying the current one is great but in your system it seems that some armors are functionay not worth buying. I play primarily fighters and I usually put dex as my secondary stat instead of con, as not being hit is better than a few extra hit points. But that is another discussion all together. I would usually have a 14 or more dex giving me a least a 2 point bonus. In your system I max armor at plate coat and save myself 1,500 gold.
I guess my point is this, dexterity in your system makes all your armors the same with regards to high dex characters, light is AC 16, medium is AC 17 and heavy is AC 18. But there is a distinct drawback to having the second half of your medium and heavy lists. It seems that certain armors would not be used. Dex should not make all armors the same. Some stepping is needed to keep this from happening.
I agree that special materials should be kept off to the side and simple become a modification to the base armor. Making those types of armors rare and special and allowing the individual GM to decide if they are common in a specific location or world.
Agreed. This was my main issue with armour in 3e. It usually just became a game of "find the armour with max dex equal to your modifier" unless you had to wear lighter armour for a class feature.
I think either the system should drop down to just having light armour, medium armour, and heavy armour and make the specifics up to the player for flavour, or if they're going to bother having all those different types of armour, each one should have an actually impact on gameplay apart from "well, that one's worse because I have 14 dexterity..."
Personally though, I think I'm more in favour of one set of stats for each armour category (light, medium, and heavy). I mean, if we're willing to accept AC as a cross between dodging, blocking with a shield, and armour, I personally don't understand why we need to differenciate between chainmail and ringmail.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 17, 2012 - 10:33AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Mar 30, 2007
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First I like this more than the current official version, especially 4 Shield types though I'd not impose Disadvantage to a basic Shield or it will be obsolete in favour of Bucklers.
Agreed. Small shields have been adjusted to lose disadvantage.
Ringmail is "Heavy Armour" and yet allows a great Dex bonus than most Mediums, feels nonsensical to me especially as some of the Mediums share the same disadvantages. In fact Medium and Heavy are just headings in your chart - there's nothing really that differentiates them.
Even the actual weight of Chainmail and Breastplate match some of the heavies.
The most important differences between these armours types is character proficiency. As your proficiency grows (if it can grow with feats in 5th edition), you gain access to more advanced and well constructed forms of armour. This opens new options of heavier armour that still let you take advantage of your Dex bonus. Besides, if you have proficiency with heavy armour, you probably aren't looking at medium or light armours as much, and that's by design. You're looking at the latest armour advances in which you have been trained to fight. It's not like a stealthy rogue is going to be wearing full pate and wizards can't wear armour at all if they want to cast spells (in this playest).
I'd leave Plate Coat as "Splint or Banded" incidentally, there's enough "Plate"
Plate Coat was my attempt to simplify what banded and splint represent in the armour world. I'm essentially looking for one name to describe both types of armour. I'm open to suggestions if you can think of something better.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 17, 2012 - 10:46AM
#8
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Date Joined:
Mar 30, 2007
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I'm not sure about this system, I am not saying the current one is great but in your system it seems that some armors are functionay not worth buying. I play primarily fighters and I usually put dex as my secondary stat instead of con, as not being hit is better than a few extra hit points. But that is another discussion all together. I would usually have a 14 or more dex giving me a least a 2 point bonus. In your system I max armor at plate coat and save myself 1,500 gold.
Fair enough, but that's you. Somebody else could assign 10 to their Dex and beef up their Constitution, especially if all the complaints I'm hearing about hit points are heeded and Constitution is added to that total again.
I guess my point is this, dexterity in your system makes all your armors the same with regards to high dex characters, light is AC 16, medium is AC 17 and heavy is AC 18. But there is a distinct drawback to having the second half of your medium and heavy lists. It seems that certain armors would not be used. Dex should not make all armours the same. Some stepping is needed to keep this from happening.
Again, I still think you are over-valuing Dexterity because of your personal preference, which is not to say that Dexterity isn't valuable. Still, many people do not share your preference. I can already imagine that clerics with heavy armour proficiency will value Strength and Constitution over Dexterity, and that's after assigning their highest roll to Wisdom. There are characters types that simply don't give a damn about stealth or speed, but do care about protection. They are going to favour the highest AC armours on my list, regardless of the speed or stealth penalties.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 17, 2012 - 10:56AM
#9
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Date Joined:
Mar 30, 2007
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Personally though, I think I'm more in favour of one set of stats for each armour category (light, medium, and heavy). I mean, if we're willing to accept AC as a cross between dodging, blocking with a shield, and armour, I personally don't understand why we need to differenciate between chainmail and ringmail.
I think the differentiation is also a tool that helps form a mental image of your character. Full-plate conjures images of mounted knights. Banded/Splint (plate coat) armour could be worn by elite soldiers. Scale mail could be preferred by sellswords. The choice, even visually, can be a defining one for your character. It certainly doesn't hurt if those stylistic options also come with meaningful mechanical differences.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 17, 2012 - 10:07PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Jan 22, 2006
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After seeing the displacer beast hide and dragon scale and mithril chain armours in the main equipment list, I came here to complain about their inclusion, but I see now that this thread has already addressed that point. That the original poster also created a more desirable armour list was unexpected. I would use these armours and shields over the playtest packet armours in a second.
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