Point of order, btw, the Abeir elements were not retcon'd in, even in a "not technically but basically" sense. They were the result of a new event.
Really? For it not to be a retcon, Abeir, had to exist before the Spellplague brought it into conjuction (or back into conjuction) with Toril. Abeir was not created by the Spellplague, its pre-existing elements were interwoven with the geography of Toril by the Spellplague.
Abeir and Toril were separated by Ao after the Dawn War, right? When was the Dawn War "revealed" to be part of the continuity? I've just had a quick search (all I can do while in the wrong continent) and I can't find a reference to it from before the FRCG was published. Were there no creation stories from before then? Isn't that kind of a big thing to not have revealed in the twenty odd years of FR leading up to that?
Who knows, it may not meet your definition of a retcon, but it is skirting dangerously close to mine.
Not that it matters either way, of course. What is done, is done.
"Turns out, bits of history we thought were one way were actually another" isn't a retcon, IMO. Now, many things from that time could have been further away from a retcon. In fact, they could have been further from retcon and still had all of the same elements.
But revealing new things about the history of the world/universe is something I expect to happen occasionally, both big and small. A world with no hidden history is an insufferably boring world, IMO.
About all the gods returning. I'd be cool if that means the gods come back from ToT, including old Mystra rather than Midnight, with perhaps Midnight stepping down but being granted the role of goddess of goodly magic or somesuch. Then, bring back Bhaal.
Could Cyric die, though? I'd be cool with him dieing. Or least having Intrigue taken from him, and given back to Mask.
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
Just to clarify, the only reason it was given the Abeir name was so that it would appear first on shelves and such, at least I seem to recall that was the primary reason for it. Might have been Schend or Grubb, or possibly someone else, but I'm pretty sure it was one of those two.
Jeff Grubb in concert with Ed, from the looks of things. The best ref I have been able to find is to an interview with Jeff for a podcast. I will listen to it tonight and will post specifics, should anything interesting one way or the other come up.
My approach to the NPCs of previous editions. Spoiler:Show
I always saw the High Level NPCs as shepherds of the Realms not its defenders. Making sure that not too many sheep were lost as they milled around (as they are wont to do) and bringing on the young'uns into the job. In that way a shepherd never has time to go and hunt down all of the wolves but is pretty dashed effective at keeping them away from the sheep when they rear their heads.
"It was a puzzle why things were always dragged kicking and screaming. No one ever seemed to want to, for example, lead them gently by the hand." - Terry Pratchett
"Turns out, bits of history we thought were one way were actually another" isn't a retcon, IMO. Now, many things from that time could have been further away from a retcon. In fact, they could have been further from retcon and still had all of the same elements.
But revealing new things about the history of the world/universe is something I expect to happen occasionally, both big and small. A world with no hidden history is an insufferably boring world, IMO.
About all the gods returning. I'd be cool if that means the gods come back from ToT, including old Mystra rather than Midnight, with perhaps Midnight stepping down but being granted the role of goddess of goodly magic or somesuch. Then, bring back Bhaal.
Could Cyric die, though? I'd be cool with him dieing. Or least having Intrigue taken from him, and given back to Mask.
I still say the Dawn War/Abeir stuff was shoehorned in to fit the "everything is core" mantra. I hope DDN gets rid of that Primordial-abeir stuff as well as other content non-Realms specific (That includes Planescape and Spelljammer.) That way, you can drop what you like back into the Realms to fit your take on whatever multiverse you want the Realms in.
Also, killing Cyric would be nice. And please, take Kelemvor with him.
Disgruntled ghost of the Knights of W.T.F. (Keep D&D alive, end the edition wars!)
"And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Disclaimer: Most of my posts are based on opinions (and are sometimes humorous, other times inspirational)
About all the gods returning. I'd be cool if that means the gods come back from ToT, including old Mystra rather than Midnight, with perhaps Midnight stepping down but being granted the role of goddess of goodly magic or somesuch. Then, bring back Bhaal.
Could Cyric die, though? I'd be cool with him dieing. Or least having Intrigue taken from him, and given back to Mask.
As I see it, the emphasis on ''all'' hints that all the gods removed are going to be brought back. That means the ones gone with the ToT, Mask, the Drow Pantheon, Mystra (one of her versions), Helm, Tyr and the ones merged/removed by the SP. That's going to bring a bit of conflict tho (like Bhaal vs Cyric, or Myrkul vs Kelemvor). We'll see in 2 years...
Erik is a trooper. Over at CK he gave a little more attention to the concept of toning down the scale of events in Realms novels. He also hopes to summarize the Sundering seminar, because to his knowledge, there isn't a video of it.
All indication is that going forward, the Realms is going to focus on smaller, character-driven stories that don't reshape the world every six months. We need to break the "bigger = more exciting" bias that we have. There will be stories about iconic characters--you better believe Drizzt is alive and well--they just won't be saving the world every book.
The Harpers series analogy is a really good one. That's where WotC is aiming going forward: small-scale, exciting, personal, character-driven novels. We don't have to blow up the world every few months to sell novels. (Or, at least, we shouldn't.)
The cycle of ever-escalating RSEs was basically a sales-gimmick, the thought being that everyone who participated in the Realms HAD to read these novels, to know what was going on. But the problem with that is that you're constantly rewriting your setting after every book, and it gets wearisome for the fans.
Realms Shaking Events are going to be left to you, the players, running through campaigns. WotC is going to the plan of "collect feedback from DMs about what happened in a set of campaigns, and incorporate that going forward." Did the majority of people playing this adventure in Sundabar assassinate the king? Then it happened. Did such-and-such thieves' guild get destroyed in the course of an adventure in Baldur's Gate? Then it happened in the lore. Shared-experience events will be canonized.
Novels will also (presumably) still be canon, but they will be way, WAY less intrusive. They will have little bearing on the course of world-wide events, but rather merely concern that small group of people in that small area. You won't be faced with the option to ignore them or not, but rather the option to incorporate them or not.
"I don't like X, they should remove it." "I like X, they should keep it." "They should replace X with Y." "Anybody that likes X is dumb. Y is better." "Why don't they include both X and Y." "Yeah, everybody can be happy then!" "But I don't like X, they should remove it." "X really needs to be replaced with Y." "But they can include both X and Y." "But I don't like X, they need to remove it." "Remove X, I don't like it."
Until you've had an in-law tell you your choice of game was stupid, and just Warcraft on paper, and dumbed down for dumber players who can't handle a real RPG, you haven't lived.
Lady and gentlemen.... I present to you the Edition War without Contrition, the War of the Web, the Mighty Match-up!
We're using standard edition war rules. No posts of substance. Do not read the other person's posts with comprehension. Make frequent comparison to video games, MMOs, and CCGs. Use the words "fallacy" and "straw man", incorrectly and often. Passive aggressiveness gets you extra points and asking misleading and inflammatory questions is mandatory. If you're getting tired, just declare victory and leave the thread. Wait for the buzzer... and....
One, two, three, four, I declare Edition War Five, six, seven eight, I use the web to
D&D should not return to the days of blindfolding the DM and players. No tips on encounter power? No mention of expected party roles? No true meaning of level due to different level charts or tiered classes? Please, let's not sacrifice clear, helpful rules guidelines in favour of catering to the delicate sensibilities of the few who have problems with the ascetics of anything other than what they are familiar with.
Just a quick note on the MMORPG as an insult comparison...
MMORPGs, raking in money by the dumptruck full. Many options, tons of fans across many audiences, massive resources allocated to development.
TTRPGs, dying product. Squeaking out an existence that relys on low cost. Fans fit primarily into a few small demographics. R&D budgets small, often rushed to market and patched after deployment.
You're not really making much of an argument when you compare something to a MMORPG and assume people think that means bad. Lets face it, they make the money, have the audience and the budget. We here on this board are fans of TTRPGs but lets not try to pretend none of us play MMORPGs.
Something like Tactical Shift is more magical than martial healing.
Telling someone to move over a few feet is magical now? :|
I weep for this generation.
Given the laziness and morbid obsesity amongst D&Ders, being able to convince someone to get on their feet, do some heavy exercise, and use their words to make them be healthier must seem magical.
"Turns out, bits of history we thought were one way were actually another" isn't a retcon, IMO. Now, many things from that time could have been further away from a retcon. In fact, they could have been further from retcon and still had all of the same elements.
But revealing new things about the history of the world/universe is something I expect to happen occasionally, both big and small. A world with no hidden history is an insufferably boring world, IMO.
About all the gods returning. I'd be cool if that means the gods come back from ToT, including old Mystra rather than Midnight, with perhaps Midnight stepping down but being granted the role of goddess of goodly magic or somesuch. Then, bring back Bhaal.
Could Cyric die, though? I'd be cool with him dieing. Or least having Intrigue taken from him, and given back to Mask.
I still say the Dawn War/Abeir stuff was shoehorned in to fit the "everything is core" mantra. I hope DDN gets rid of that Primordial-abeir stuff as well as other content non-Realms specific (That includes Planescape and Spelljammer.) That way, you can drop what you like back into the Realms to fit your take on whatever multiverse you want the Realms in.
Also, killing Cyric would be nice. And please, take Kelemvor with him.
Vehemently disagree about Kelemvor. At most I'd be ok with him and Myrkul both having dominion over death, but in different ways. Myrkul can come back, find his lordship over death taken, and steal Undeath, Necromancy, and decay or somesuch, which Kelemvor remains god of The Dead, and perhaps becomes guardian of the faithless, finally explaining why there is no more wall of the faithless? (I despise the wall concept, and will probably vomit in my mouth a bit if it returns.)
The rest, if Dragonborn, Genasi and all that go away in a wave of magic, I'm not sure my retcon filter will enable me to play in FR anymore. They're there, they're part of the setting now, erasing them wholesale would just...really grind my gears.
About all the gods returning. I'd be cool if that means the gods come back from ToT, including old Mystra rather than Midnight, with perhaps Midnight stepping down but being granted the role of goddess of goodly magic or somesuch. Then, bring back Bhaal.
Could Cyric die, though? I'd be cool with him dieing. Or least having Intrigue taken from him, and given back to Mask.
As I see it, the emphasis on ''all'' hints that all the gods removed are going to be brought back. That means the ones gone with the ToT, Mask, the Drow Pantheon, Mystra (one of her versions), Helm, Tyr and the ones merged/removed by the SP. That's going to bring a bit of conflict tho (like Bhaal vs Cyric, or Myrkul vs Kelemvor). We'll see in 2 years...
Myrkul always...well, I can't think of a verb for "made me not care at all because he was completely boring". Underwhelmed me, I guess? Bhaal was far more interesting than Cyric, to me, but I'd even be ok with both being around, with Cyric being the mad god of something or other, and Bhaal taking his old place.
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
About all the gods returning. I'd be cool if that means the gods come back from ToT, including old Mystra rather than Midnight, with perhaps Midnight stepping down but being granted the role of goddess of goodly magic or somesuch. Then, bring back Bhaal.
Could Cyric die, though? I'd be cool with him dieing. Or least having Intrigue taken from him, and given back to Mask.
As I see it, the emphasis on ''all'' hints that all the gods removed are going to be brought back. That means the ones gone with the ToT, Mask, the Drow Pantheon, Mystra (one of her versions), Helm, Tyr and the ones merged/removed by the SP. That's going to bring a bit of conflict tho (like Bhaal vs Cyric, or Myrkul vs Kelemvor). We'll see in 2 years...
Vehemently disagree about Kelemvor. At most I'd be ok with him and Myrkul both having dominion over death, but in different ways. Myrkul can come back, find his lordship over death taken, and steal Undeath, Necromancy, and decay or somesuch, which Kelemvor remains god of The Dead, and perhaps becomes guardian of the faithless, finally explaining why there is no more wall of the faithless? (I despise the wall concept, and will probably vomit in my mouth a bit if it returns.)
Myrkul always...well, I can't think of a verb for "made me not care at all because he was completely boring". Underwhelmed me, I guess? Bhaal was far more interesting than Cyric, to me, but I'd even be ok with both being around, with Cyric being the mad god of something or other, and Bhaal taking his old place.
Yes, I agree with this. Myrkul looks too much like the ''death is scary'' stereotypical deity of death. Kelemvor makes more sense in holding that domain but, as you proposed, he fits well as a god of the dead and the faithless (whose wall I fiercely hate, to the point that its disappearance was one of the few things I liked about 4e). Having the two of them holding different aspects of the death portfolio would be a good thing.
Yes, I agree with this. Myrkul looks too much like the ''death is scary'' stereotypical deity of death. Kelemvor makes more sense in holding that domain but, as you proposed, he fits well as a god of the dead and the faithless (whose wall I fiercely hate, to the point that its disappearance was one of the few things I liked about 4e). Having the two of them holding different aspects of the death portfolio would be a good thing.
Yeah, I think that would work better than my first thought of just not letting Myrkul come back at all. :P
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
Yeah, this new post-Sundering era of the Realms is going to be designed for the greatest possible number of people to enjoy, so accomodating many options is a must.
That said, here's Paul S. Kemp's take on the Sundering.
From this, it really sounds like the Realms are returning to their roots, OGB style.
Not really a fan of the Returned Abeir being removed as a continent. While not a fan of the name, it was a lot more interesting of a place to take characters than their new world Maztica.
To me a not so humanistic continent was an interesting hostile land to put players into.
), Helm, Tyr and the ones merged/removed by the SP. That's going to bring a bit of conflict tho (like Bhaal vs Cyric, or Myrkul vs Kelemvor). We'll see in 2 years...
