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11 months ago ::
Aug 16, 2012 - 7:29AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Oct 17, 2007
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It's becoming more and more clear that D&DN won't appeal to a good part of the 4E audience. The question is what this audience is going to do when the new edition will ship. Some will get on and adopt it anyway, some others will just stick to 4E or move to other systems. But there may be a 3rd way: having the edition rebranded as something else other than D&D and continue publication. After all if WotC has decided D&DN is where they want to take the IP (and they have any right to do so), it would make sense to branch out. The 4E game can be just for digital distribution, as pdf or via DDI, if the cost of printing is not sustainable. Most of the material available for D&DN will of course be shared between the two, keeping the cost at minimum: it's just a matter of providing stats for use in 4E through the digital format. This way WotC can retain paying customers instead of losing them to competitors (Pathfinder docet). I for one don't really care if it is or isn't "D&D": it's a game I enjoy and I'd be happy to pay to support it. Or perhaps I'm just going through the bargaining phase of grief. Next will be depression...
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11 months ago ::
Aug 16, 2012 - 8:33AM
#2
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Date Joined:
Jun 12, 2009
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They decided to move on to D&D Next becuase 4e wasn't doing well enough, they aren't going to continue publishing 4e materials. Besides, if they wanted to, why would it be under a different name?
We summoned a devil once. All we used was the D&D books, too. It was pretty kwazy.
God of Arrested Development and Intelligence 
Resident Left Hand of Stalin and Banana Stand Grandstander
Pie-Cooling-On-A-Windowsill of the House of Trolls
In the morning HK'll be sober but you'll still be a meatbag.
I know I misspell "Danke" in my posts. It's an inside joke.
"Ten cents gets you nuts." -George Michael
Spoiler:
Show
''Being president is like running a cemetery: you've got a lot of people under you and nobody's listening.''
—Bill Clinton
Marketing and design are two different things. For instance the snuggy was designed for people in wheel chairs and marketed to people that are too incompetent to operate a blanket.
You are not a moral man. There are not enough middle fingers in the world for you.
Why do I get a silly PG-13 man giggle going everytime I see Fist Of The Forest ?
I do not understand. I can't give a game to a friend?
You can, but only once. That friend can't give it to anyone else. The holy corporation has spoken. Stop complaining and give them all your money.
But how will they know?
I do not play video games.
then why do you care? 
Why do you care that I care?
i'm curious
You are? Cool! Here is a hornet's nest. Stick your [redacted] in it to see what happens.
And do not call me a Yank. I am a Québecois, basically your better.
I heard samsung is making shoes that are making you run faster too.
Liar. Hipsters don't run. It's too mainstream.
Actually, Santa just didn't like you. However, you weren't on the Naughty List, so he had to give you something "better" than coal.
I'd take coal. Heating your house is expesive, and engery cost arn't going down.
Mabey if i beat enough homeless people, i won't have to be cold this year. 
"Heroes"...I wish I had those. I remember in my first-ever campaign one PC went around shootin all the unconscious baddies in the head to gain Dark Side Points...
Whaaaaaat?!??
Wow...way to waste perfectly good potential slaves.
Er...no wait I mean..uh...something not evil!
(Quotes screwed up on the next one, won't give the poster's name. It's in the Best Lines thread on the D&D forum)
First, an experience from a game I played in a few years back. Our DM didn't like 3.5 as a whole but liked parts of it. So he hands us a big ass rules packet for his modified FR campaign, complete with quotes from important NPC's on the front. I can't remember most of the HRs, just that some how gods like Cyric and Bhaal existed at the same time, despite the obvious problems there. In the end the game became a problem more because of the railroading than the HRs, but it ended with this classic line, after our ranger tried to disarm the strange woman following us WITH HIS BOW: DM: You just killed (insert random noble sounding name here) JP: Was she important? Jack: Dude, she's quoted on the front of the rules packet!
"Why in the wide,wide, world of all things irrational would I help you?
-Daniel Jackson
"Fun will now commence."
-Seven of Nine
"Excellent."
-Mr. Burns.
Whey is a crotch.
Cut the last encounter on your way out after dealing with the Darth. He's the BBEG. Treat him as such. Play up that Darth Revan is THAT much of a badarse. When the shuttle landed, I had no less than 13 JEDI MASTERS step off the shuttle. The PCs were slack-jawed. After the meetup with Bastila (as she's carrying Revan's body), only TWO jedi masters remained with her. Let me tell you, the player whining about not getting to fight Revan himself shut up pretty quickly when he saw that. 
There's so much you can do with insanity, especially when it has alot of resources.
1. Cleric cast protection from fire on Tank.
2. Tank goes in and get surrounded by enemies.
3. Wizard cast fireball and blows them up.
4. ???
5. Profit
I go by the saying," If it ain't friendly fire then it's not working."
And the greatest post moderation of all time...
I gave that (Content Removed) a to-scale Lego replica. (Content Removed) love to-scale Lego replicas.
(ORC_Cerberus: Edited - Vulgarity is against the Code of Conduct)
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11 months ago ::
Aug 16, 2012 - 8:34AM
#3
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im kind of satisfied with the amount of material there is out there for 4e. i would def look at fanmade material, and im working on my own, but im just personally not seeing a need for a rebranding effort.
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11 months ago ::
Aug 16, 2012 - 8:49AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Oct 17, 2007
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They decided to move on to D&D Next becuase 4e wasn't doing well enough, they aren't going to continue publishing 4e materials. Besides, if they wanted to, why would it be under a different name?
It was doing ok, but not as well expected. Still it is probably a profitable business.
Changing the brand would avoid cannibalization between the two product lines and generating confusion in the audience.
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11 months ago ::
Aug 16, 2012 - 8:53AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Jun 12, 2009
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They decided to move on to D&D Next becuase 4e wasn't doing well enough, they aren't going to continue publishing 4e materials. Besides, if they wanted to, why would it be under a different name?
It was doing ok, but not as well expected. Still it is probably a profitable business.
Changing the brand would avoid cannibalization between the two product lines and generating confusion in the audience.
It wasn't profitable enough, that's the bottom line.
Cannibalization? If I udnerstand what you mean by that, it's not any sort of issue so could you explain this?
If they wanted to avoid confusing the audience Essentials would never hace been released, that's obviously no problem for them.
We summoned a devil once. All we used was the D&D books, too. It was pretty kwazy.
God of Arrested Development and Intelligence
Resident Left Hand of Stalin and Banana Stand Grandstander
Pie-Cooling-On-A-Windowsill of the House of Trolls
In the morning HK'll be sober but you'll still be a meatbag.
I know I misspell "Danke" in my posts. It's an inside joke.
"Ten cents gets you nuts." -George Michael
Spoiler:
Show
''Being president is like running a cemetery: you've got a lot of people under you and nobody's listening.''
—Bill Clinton
Marketing and design are two different things. For instance the snuggy was designed for people in wheel chairs and marketed to people that are too incompetent to operate a blanket.
You are not a moral man. There are not enough middle fingers in the world for you.
Why do I get a silly PG-13 man giggle going everytime I see Fist Of The Forest ?
I do not understand. I can't give a game to a friend?
You can, but only once. That friend can't give it to anyone else. The holy corporation has spoken. Stop complaining and give them all your money.
But how will they know?
I do not play video games.
then why do you care?
Why do you care that I care?
i'm curious
You are? Cool! Here is a hornet's nest. Stick your [redacted] in it to see what happens.
And do not call me a Yank. I am a Québecois, basically your better.
I heard samsung is making shoes that are making you run faster too.
Liar. Hipsters don't run. It's too mainstream.
Actually, Santa just didn't like you. However, you weren't on the Naughty List, so he had to give you something "better" than coal.
I'd take coal. Heating your house is expesive, and engery cost arn't going down.
Mabey if i beat enough homeless people, i won't have to be cold this year.
"Heroes"...I wish I had those. I remember in my first-ever campaign one PC went around shootin all the unconscious baddies in the head to gain Dark Side Points...
Whaaaaaat?!??
Wow...way to waste perfectly good potential slaves.
Er...no wait I mean..uh...something not evil!
(Quotes screwed up on the next one, won't give the poster's name. It's in the Best Lines thread on the D&D forum)
First, an experience from a game I played in a few years back. Our DM didn't like 3.5 as a whole but liked parts of it. So he hands us a big ass rules packet for his modified FR campaign, complete with quotes from important NPC's on the front. I can't remember most of the HRs, just that some how gods like Cyric and Bhaal existed at the same time, despite the obvious problems there. In the end the game became a problem more because of the railroading than the HRs, but it ended with this classic line, after our ranger tried to disarm the strange woman following us WITH HIS BOW: DM: You just killed (insert random noble sounding name here) JP: Was she important? Jack: Dude, she's quoted on the front of the rules packet!
"Why in the wide,wide, world of all things irrational would I help you?
-Daniel Jackson
"Fun will now commence."
-Seven of Nine
"Excellent."
-Mr. Burns.
Whey is a crotch.
Cut the last encounter on your way out after dealing with the Darth. He's the BBEG. Treat him as such. Play up that Darth Revan is THAT much of a badarse. When the shuttle landed, I had no less than 13 JEDI MASTERS step off the shuttle. The PCs were slack-jawed. After the meetup with Bastila (as she's carrying Revan's body), only TWO jedi masters remained with her. Let me tell you, the player whining about not getting to fight Revan himself shut up pretty quickly when he saw that.
There's so much you can do with insanity, especially when it has alot of resources.
1. Cleric cast protection from fire on Tank.
2. Tank goes in and get surrounded by enemies.
3. Wizard cast fireball and blows them up.
4. ???
5. Profit
I go by the saying," If it ain't friendly fire then it's not working."
And the greatest post moderation of all time...
I gave that (Content Removed) a to-scale Lego replica. (Content Removed) love to-scale Lego replicas.
(ORC_Cerberus: Edited - Vulgarity is against the Code of Conduct)
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11 months ago ::
Aug 16, 2012 - 9:15AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Oct 17, 2007
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It wasn't profitable enough, that's the bottom line.
Cannibalization? If I udnerstand what you mean by that, it's not any sort of issue so could you explain this?
If they wanted to avoid confusing the audience Essentials would never hace been released, that's obviously no problem for them.
it's not necessarily a matter of profitability but rather of market share. They have gone from being the far out RPG market leader to second place behind Pathfinder. That's the reason for the whole DDN operation: trying to regain the higher spot by getting those customers back.
For cannibalisation I mean having two lines of products with the same brand that steal customers from each other. When looking for 'D&D' in a shop a customers should never have to be asked: "which one?". That was actually one of the big problems with the D&D Essential line - and I don't think WotC has any interest in repeating that.
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11 months ago ::
Aug 16, 2012 - 9:31AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Jun 12, 2009
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It wasn't profitable enough, that's the bottom line.
Cannibalization? If I udnerstand what you mean by that, it's not any sort of issue so could you explain this?
If they wanted to avoid confusing the audience Essentials would never hace been released, that's obviously no problem for them.
it's not necessarily a matter of profitability but rather of market share. They have gone from being the far out RPG market leader to second place behind Pathfinder. That's the reason for the whole DDN operation: trying to regain the higher spot by getting those customers back.
For cannibalisation I mean having two lines of products with the same brand that steal customers from each other. When looking for 'D&D' in a shop a customers should never have to be asked: "which one?". That was actually one of the big problems with the D&D Essential line - and I don't think WotC has any interest in repeating that.
You just contradicted yourself in regard to profitability, so I'm a bit confused.
Fair enough in regards to Essentials.
We summoned a devil once. All we used was the D&D books, too. It was pretty kwazy.
God of Arrested Development and Intelligence
Resident Left Hand of Stalin and Banana Stand Grandstander
Pie-Cooling-On-A-Windowsill of the House of Trolls
In the morning HK'll be sober but you'll still be a meatbag.
I know I misspell "Danke" in my posts. It's an inside joke.
"Ten cents gets you nuts." -George Michael
Spoiler:
Show
''Being president is like running a cemetery: you've got a lot of people under you and nobody's listening.''
—Bill Clinton
Marketing and design are two different things. For instance the snuggy was designed for people in wheel chairs and marketed to people that are too incompetent to operate a blanket.
You are not a moral man. There are not enough middle fingers in the world for you.
Why do I get a silly PG-13 man giggle going everytime I see Fist Of The Forest ?
I do not understand. I can't give a game to a friend?
You can, but only once. That friend can't give it to anyone else. The holy corporation has spoken. Stop complaining and give them all your money.
But how will they know?
I do not play video games.
then why do you care?
Why do you care that I care?
i'm curious
You are? Cool! Here is a hornet's nest. Stick your [redacted] in it to see what happens.
And do not call me a Yank. I am a Québecois, basically your better.
I heard samsung is making shoes that are making you run faster too.
Liar. Hipsters don't run. It's too mainstream.
Actually, Santa just didn't like you. However, you weren't on the Naughty List, so he had to give you something "better" than coal.
I'd take coal. Heating your house is expesive, and engery cost arn't going down.
Mabey if i beat enough homeless people, i won't have to be cold this year.
"Heroes"...I wish I had those. I remember in my first-ever campaign one PC went around shootin all the unconscious baddies in the head to gain Dark Side Points...
Whaaaaaat?!??
Wow...way to waste perfectly good potential slaves.
Er...no wait I mean..uh...something not evil!
(Quotes screwed up on the next one, won't give the poster's name. It's in the Best Lines thread on the D&D forum)
First, an experience from a game I played in a few years back. Our DM didn't like 3.5 as a whole but liked parts of it. So he hands us a big ass rules packet for his modified FR campaign, complete with quotes from important NPC's on the front. I can't remember most of the HRs, just that some how gods like Cyric and Bhaal existed at the same time, despite the obvious problems there. In the end the game became a problem more because of the railroading than the HRs, but it ended with this classic line, after our ranger tried to disarm the strange woman following us WITH HIS BOW: DM: You just killed (insert random noble sounding name here) JP: Was she important? Jack: Dude, she's quoted on the front of the rules packet!
"Why in the wide,wide, world of all things irrational would I help you?
-Daniel Jackson
"Fun will now commence."
-Seven of Nine
"Excellent."
-Mr. Burns.
Whey is a crotch.
Cut the last encounter on your way out after dealing with the Darth. He's the BBEG. Treat him as such. Play up that Darth Revan is THAT much of a badarse. When the shuttle landed, I had no less than 13 JEDI MASTERS step off the shuttle. The PCs were slack-jawed. After the meetup with Bastila (as she's carrying Revan's body), only TWO jedi masters remained with her. Let me tell you, the player whining about not getting to fight Revan himself shut up pretty quickly when he saw that.
There's so much you can do with insanity, especially when it has alot of resources.
1. Cleric cast protection from fire on Tank.
2. Tank goes in and get surrounded by enemies.
3. Wizard cast fireball and blows them up.
4. ???
5. Profit
I go by the saying," If it ain't friendly fire then it's not working."
And the greatest post moderation of all time...
I gave that (Content Removed) a to-scale Lego replica. (Content Removed) love to-scale Lego replicas.
(ORC_Cerberus: Edited - Vulgarity is against the Code of Conduct)
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11 months ago ::
Aug 16, 2012 - 10:05AM
#8
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Date Joined:
Oct 17, 2007
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You just contradicted yourself in regard to profitability, so I'm a bit confused.
Profitability is about making money by having a positive balance between profit and loss. I think 4E achieved that. And there probably still money to be made from it.
Market share is the penetration of the product in the market. If it loses a significant quota, like 4E did to PF, then investors and company directors tend to become very nervous, no matter if the product is making money or not, because that means the brand (as a company asset) is losing value.
So my point is: WotC get to make some money (and some good PR), a group of customers is not alienated and gets more of the game they like. That's potentially a win-win scenario.
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11 months ago ::
Aug 16, 2012 - 10:22AM
#9
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Date Joined:
Jun 12, 2009
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You just contradicted yourself in regard to profitability, so I'm a bit confused.
Profitability is about making money by having a positive balance between profit and loss. I think 4E achieved that. And there probably still money to be made from it.
Market share is the penetration of the product in the market. If it loses a significant quota, like 4E did to PF, then investors and company directors tend to become very nervous, no matter if the product is making money or not, because that means the brand (as a company asset) is losing value.
So my point is: WotC get to make some money (and some good PR), a group of customers is not alienated and gets more of the game they like. That's potentially a win-win scenario.
But it almost certainly won't happen.
We summoned a devil once. All we used was the D&D books, too. It was pretty kwazy.
God of Arrested Development and Intelligence
Resident Left Hand of Stalin and Banana Stand Grandstander
Pie-Cooling-On-A-Windowsill of the House of Trolls
In the morning HK'll be sober but you'll still be a meatbag.
I know I misspell "Danke" in my posts. It's an inside joke.
"Ten cents gets you nuts." -George Michael
Spoiler:
Show
''Being president is like running a cemetery: you've got a lot of people under you and nobody's listening.''
—Bill Clinton
Marketing and design are two different things. For instance the snuggy was designed for people in wheel chairs and marketed to people that are too incompetent to operate a blanket.
You are not a moral man. There are not enough middle fingers in the world for you.
Why do I get a silly PG-13 man giggle going everytime I see Fist Of The Forest ?
I do not understand. I can't give a game to a friend?
You can, but only once. That friend can't give it to anyone else. The holy corporation has spoken. Stop complaining and give them all your money.
But how will they know?
I do not play video games.
then why do you care?
Why do you care that I care?
i'm curious
You are? Cool! Here is a hornet's nest. Stick your [redacted] in it to see what happens.
And do not call me a Yank. I am a Québecois, basically your better.
I heard samsung is making shoes that are making you run faster too.
Liar. Hipsters don't run. It's too mainstream.
Actually, Santa just didn't like you. However, you weren't on the Naughty List, so he had to give you something "better" than coal.
I'd take coal. Heating your house is expesive, and engery cost arn't going down.
Mabey if i beat enough homeless people, i won't have to be cold this year.
"Heroes"...I wish I had those. I remember in my first-ever campaign one PC went around shootin all the unconscious baddies in the head to gain Dark Side Points...
Whaaaaaat?!??
Wow...way to waste perfectly good potential slaves.
Er...no wait I mean..uh...something not evil!
(Quotes screwed up on the next one, won't give the poster's name. It's in the Best Lines thread on the D&D forum)
First, an experience from a game I played in a few years back. Our DM didn't like 3.5 as a whole but liked parts of it. So he hands us a big ass rules packet for his modified FR campaign, complete with quotes from important NPC's on the front. I can't remember most of the HRs, just that some how gods like Cyric and Bhaal existed at the same time, despite the obvious problems there. In the end the game became a problem more because of the railroading than the HRs, but it ended with this classic line, after our ranger tried to disarm the strange woman following us WITH HIS BOW: DM: You just killed (insert random noble sounding name here) JP: Was she important? Jack: Dude, she's quoted on the front of the rules packet!
"Why in the wide,wide, world of all things irrational would I help you?
-Daniel Jackson
"Fun will now commence."
-Seven of Nine
"Excellent."
-Mr. Burns.
Whey is a crotch.
Cut the last encounter on your way out after dealing with the Darth. He's the BBEG. Treat him as such. Play up that Darth Revan is THAT much of a badarse. When the shuttle landed, I had no less than 13 JEDI MASTERS step off the shuttle. The PCs were slack-jawed. After the meetup with Bastila (as she's carrying Revan's body), only TWO jedi masters remained with her. Let me tell you, the player whining about not getting to fight Revan himself shut up pretty quickly when he saw that.
There's so much you can do with insanity, especially when it has alot of resources.
1. Cleric cast protection from fire on Tank.
2. Tank goes in and get surrounded by enemies.
3. Wizard cast fireball and blows them up.
4. ???
5. Profit
I go by the saying," If it ain't friendly fire then it's not working."
And the greatest post moderation of all time...
I gave that (Content Removed) a to-scale Lego replica. (Content Removed) love to-scale Lego replicas.
(ORC_Cerberus: Edited - Vulgarity is against the Code of Conduct)
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11 months ago ::
Aug 16, 2012 - 10:29AM
#10
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Date Joined:
Oct 17, 2007
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But it almost certainly won't happen.
In which case that means...
I'm just going through the bargaining phase of grief. Next will be depression...
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