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10 months ago ::
Aug 14, 2012 - 10:36AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Feb 10, 2007
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With the new weapon category of Finesse Weapons, I wonder if elves would be better served by changing the Elven Weapon Training trait to: "When you attack with a one-handed finesse weapon, a shortbow or a longbow with which you have proficiency..." I believe it would be much more flavorful than the ubiquitous long sword. The weapons in that category are currently the dagger, rapier, scimitar, short sword, and whip. I have been trying to make a longsword-wielding elf fighter, but the lonsword just does not mesh with the rest. It feels like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. Even the katana fits better than the longsword.
Just a thought 
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10 months ago ::
Aug 14, 2012 - 2:57PM
#2
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Date Joined:
Aug 27, 2009
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After having just chosen my first test character to be an elven fighter, I agree. I was excited to make a melee fighter with higher Dex than Str, but I just couldn't make it work if I wanted to take advantage of the longsword boost.
Dwarven Weapon Proficiency applies to axes and hammers. Elven Weapon Proficiency should apply to finesse swords and bows.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 14, 2012 - 5:48PM
#3
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Date Joined:
Feb 10, 2007
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Couldn't agree more.
Another thing that I am seeing is that the elven war cleric is the only class/subclass that really benefits from longsword Elven Weapon Training. I do hope that elven clerics of Corellon Larethian have access to finesse weapons instead of martial ones.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 14, 2012 - 7:20PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Sep 19, 2008
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Couldn't agree more.
Another thing that I am seeing is that the elven war cleric is the only class/subclass that really benefits from longsword Elven Weapon Training. I do hope that elven clerics of Corellon Larethian have access to finesse weapons instead of martial ones.
Fourthed.
WotC, take note!
Rapier is much more thematic.
If you really want pointy-eared Longsword users, bring back the Eladrin.
Ahh, so THIS is where I can add a sig.
Remember: Killing an ancient God inside of a pyramid IS a Special Occasion, and thus, ladies should be dipping into their Special Occasions underwear drawer.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 14, 2012 - 8:16PM
#5
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Date Joined:
Aug 27, 2009
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I think elven warriors ought to be using a whole range of slender blades. Short swords, rapiers, and maybe something like the elven thinblade. (I want to say the thinblade appeared in the "Races of the Wild" splatbook from 3e. It's probably a little esoteric to include in the core weapons list, but the point is that finesse weapons are more appropriate than longswords.) As for a two-handed option, the katana works alright, and it conveniently resembles those badass swords from The Lord of the Rings films (although I don't overall agree with having one single Japanese reference in the weapons table... since when do katanas appear in the Player's Handbook?)
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10 months ago ::
Aug 14, 2012 - 11:33PM
#6
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Date Joined:
Jan 10, 2009
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Note that increased weapon die for Finesse Weapon on an Elf could be unbalanced. Such an Elf Fighter can dump Str altogether and still run around with a 1d8 one handed melee weapon and a 1d10 Longbow and high AC. He would be awesome in melee AND ranged combat. I am fine with an increase of the damage die for some Finesse Weapons for the Elf, but only in exchange for the damage die increase with Bows.
Elfs could be trained in Melee OR Ranged combat and choose at character creation if they want to improve Finesse Weapons or Ranged Weaponry.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 15, 2012 - 10:39AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Feb 10, 2007
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@Da-Ni: I do not find it that unbalanced, taking into account that a Hill Dwarf gets +1 step to the damage die of axes/hammers AND +1 step to HD. The weapons the Hill Dwarf has access to are already +1 step on the damage die compared to finesse weapons, and he can have both melee and missile axes/hammers.
The comparison between a Hill Dwarf fighter and a Wood Elf fighter would be something like this (assuming Str 18 for the Dwarf and Dex 18 for the Elf):
Hill Dwarf Fighter-> HP:11+d12/lvl, AC 16 (Chain), Maul 2d6+4 damage, Throwing Axe 1d8+4 damage.
Wood Elf Fighter-> HP:10+d10/lvl, AC 15 (Leather + Dex), Rapier 1d8+4 damage, Longbow 1d10+4 damage.
The Hill Dwarf can even change his weapon to a Warhammer (reducing damage to 1d10+4) and increase his AC by 1 with a shield.
If we now look at the Human fighter, we would see this (assuming Str 20 for the Human):
Human Fighter-> HP:10+d10/lvl, AC 16 (Chain), Maul 1d12+5 damage, Throwing Axe 1d6+5 damage.
The Halfling is a whole different ballgame, so I won't ellaborate, but I do think that a Rapier/Longbow wielding Wood Elf, if the rapier were cosidered for Elven Weapon Expertise, would be superior than the Dwarf and Human in ranged combat, but inferior in melee. I see all three of them roughly equal to each other. Not EXACTLY equal, mind you, but in about the same level of proficiency.
Just my 2 cents
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10 months ago ::
Aug 15, 2012 - 12:07PM
#8
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Date Joined:
Jun 18, 2001
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I agree that the longsword part of the trait ends up being something that just doesn't work in the actual character building process. What if the trait gave the character proficiency with these weapons? That way you could have an elven wizard that could wield a longsword. I don't think this would be unbalancing since you rarely want your wizard getting into melee combat.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 23, 2012 - 8:15PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Jun 21, 2008
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I played a 3.5 wizard who would sometimes pull and use a longsword. I liked the option but I am by no means married to it.
I wholeheartedly support SOME form finesse weapon the Elven Weapon Training list, but I don't think it should be all of them.
Rapiers and Scimitarts. Why Scimitars? Valenar from Eberron would possible to make.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 23, 2012 - 8:49PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Jul 31, 2007
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I agree that the longsword part of the trait ends up being something that just doesn't work in the actual character building process. What if the trait gave the character proficiency with these weapons? That way you could have an elven wizard that could wield a longsword. I don't think this would be unbalancing since you rarely want your wizard getting into melee combat.
Proficiency isn't a far stretch for them. It makes thematic sense.
Perhaps base the blade type on the subrace too (that would make the Drow conversion for x-bows very natural).
Drow - Longsword/Crossbows
High Elves - Longsword/Bows
Wood Elves - Rapiers/Bows
Maybe just my view on it, but this makes sense to me.
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