|
10 months ago ::
Aug 11, 2012 - 11:47AM
#1
|
|
|
I'm making a high defense striker for an upcoming campaign and I could use some advice. Constraints: Starting at level 2, I'm primarily focused on levels 2-4. Magic items are a Amulet of Passage (+2) and a low level weapon (<4) I am to play a Warlock|Paladin, although Warlock|Paladin (Variant) is OK. Here's what I think I should go with: Build
Show
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Erik, level 2
Human, Warlock/Paladin (Cavalier)
Virtue: Virtue of Valor
Hybrid Talent Option: Paladin Armor Proficiency
Eldritch Pact (Hybrid) Option: Sorcerer-King Pact (Hybrid)
Eldritch Strike Option: Eldritch Strike Charisma
Hybrid Warlock Option: Hybrid Warlock Reflex
Hybrid Paladin (Cavalier) Option: Hybrid Cavalier Fortitude
Human Power Selection Option: Heroic Effort
Tarmalune (Tarmalune Benefit)
Theme: Guardian
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 10, CON 14, DEX 10, INT 11, WIS 8, CHA 20
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 10, CON 14, DEX 10, INT 11, WIS 8, CHA 18
AC: 21 Fort: 17 Ref: 17 Will: 19
HP: 32 Surges: 10 Surge Value: 10
TRAINED SKILLS
Bluff +11, Diplomacy +13, History +6, Intimidate +11
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics –3, Arcana +1, Athletics –3, Dungeoneering +0, Endurance –1, Heal +0, Insight +0, Nature +0, Perception +0, Religion +1, Stealth –3, Streetwise +6, Thievery –3
POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Guardian Attack: Guardian's Counter
Human Racial Power: Heroic Effort
Warlock's Curse Power: Warlock's Curse
Multiple Class Utility: Defender Aura
Paladin Attack: Righteous Radiance
Paladin Attack: Holy Smite
Warlock Attack 1: Eldritch Strike
Paladin Attack 1: Enfeebling Strike
Warlock Attack 1: Yan-C-Bin's Breath
Paladin Utility 2: Vice's Reward
FEATS
Level 1: Hybrid Talent
Level 1: White Lotus Riposte
Level 2: Mindbite Scorn
ITEMS
Mage's Bastard sword +1 x1
Plate Armor x1
Heavy Shield x1
Amulet of Passage x1
Holy Symbol
Adventurer's Kit
====== End ====== This build: Warlock|Paladin (Cavalier)Advantages: WLR + Defender mechanic means at least +CHR damage all the time, free Only need to turn on aura once, after that use minor action to curse Good encounter nova power in Holy Smite Disadvantages:Need AIP or Swordmage multi to overcome MID. Feat tight, wants Expertise as well as MID-fix at level 4. Poor Ranged options because of MID. Possibly some difficulties interacting with other defenders Other possibilities: Fullblade over Broadsword + Heavy Shield ~+1 damage seems less important than +2 AC, +2 Ref, even for a striker Warlock|Paladin + Crimson FireAdvantages: 2d10 curse damage is very strong Disadvantages: Lose out on WLR, Terrible Action Economy, Defender mechanic is immediate Warlock|Paladin rangedAdvantages: Any holy symbol or rod is implement, better warlock power options (like Crown of Stars) Disadvantages: No MBA, plate armor is less important for back rank character, Paladin doesn't add much (other than Crimson Fire) In addition, how would you compare Vice's Reward with Virtue? Vice's Reward: 5 THP, Save, +2 defences UEOT Virtue: 10 THP, costs surge (of which we have 10!) Is there some other level 2 Utility I should be considering? I'd love your thoughts. Is there anything I'm missing here?
|
|
|
|
10 months ago ::
Aug 11, 2012 - 1:54PM
#2
|
Date Joined:
Apr 10, 2006
|
The Paladin's Mark Enforcement isn't an Immediate Action anymore. The builder is plain wrong.
As for what's better, depends on what levels you want, and whether you only want to be in melee.
If you want melee, I'd pick Cavalier, and pick up WLMR (you can't do that on a normal Paladin, as a Mark blocks that).
If you want ranged, of course go with Paladin.
Whatever you pick, Longsword/Rapier + Heavy Shield for Melee.
|
|
|
|
10 months ago ::
Aug 11, 2012 - 1:56PM
#3
|
Date Joined:
Feb 23, 2012
|
WLR works very well with the defender mechanic. WLMR is where the conflict is.
WLR+Divine Challenge = attack me take damage, don't attack me, take damage
As a theme, you should look into elemental initiate. You get attacked and missed(entirely possible since you are in plate and using a shield) and you get to smack them and slide them. It also gives you ki focuses which has some good low level ones which means you can worry less about your weapon.
Edit: Forgot that the cavalier enforcement is not immediate, no conflict, take them both and load up.
|
|
|
|
10 months ago ::
Aug 11, 2012 - 6:14PM
#4
|
Date Joined:
Nov 16, 2010
|
WLR works very well with the defender mechanic. WLMR is where the conflict is.
WLR+Divine Challenge = attack me take damage, don't attack me, take damage
As a theme, you should look into elemental initiate. You get attacked and missed(entirely possible since you are in plate and using a shield) and you get to smack them and slide them. It also gives you ki focuses which has some good low level ones which means you can worry less about your weapon.
Edit: Forgot that the cavalier enforcement is not immediate, no conflict, take them both and load up.
Also works famously for WLMR, since they aren't marked. Just not at level 4 like he wants.
|
|
|
|
10 months ago ::
Aug 11, 2012 - 8:20PM
#5
|
|
|
The Paladin's Mark Enforcement isn't an Immediate Action anymore. The builder is plain wrong.
Is the CB wrong too then? According to both sources, the Paladin Hybrid mark enforcement is an immediate action (note, not normal paladin enforcement).
I really like the idea of Elemental Initiate, which fixes the MID problems. I might hold off on it until the weapon options improve... the level 2 ki focii are not particularly compelling, especially compared to Mage's Blade.
|
|
|
|
10 months ago ::
Aug 11, 2012 - 8:34PM
#6
|
Date Joined:
Nov 16, 2010
|
The Paladin's Mark Enforcement isn't an Immediate Action anymore. The builder is plain wrong.
Is the CB wrong too then? According to both sources, the Paladin Hybrid mark enforcement is an immediate action (note, not normal paladin enforcement).
I really like the idea of Elemental Initiate, which fixes the MID problems. I might hold off on it until the weapon options improve... the level 2 ki focii are not particularly compelling, especially compared to Mage's Blade.
The OCB is wrong, yes. Its always been a no action. Hybrid pallies would be useless if it was an IR.
|
|
|
|
10 months ago ::
Aug 11, 2012 - 8:41PM
#7
|
Date Joined:
Feb 19, 2006
|
The Paladin's Mark Enforcement isn't an Immediate Action anymore. The builder is plain wrong.
Is the CB wrong too then? According to both sources, the Paladin Hybrid mark enforcement is an immediate action (note, not normal paladin enforcement).
I really like the idea of Elemental Initiate, which fixes the MID problems. I might hold off on it until the weapon options improve... the level 2 ki focii are not particularly compelling, especially compared to Mage's Blade.
The OCB is wrong, yes. Its always been a no action. Hybrid pallies would be useless if it was an IR.
Actually it was an Immediate Reaction in the PHB 3. There was an update that changed it to just the reduced damage.
Divine Challenge (Hybrid)
Page 146: The feature now reads as follows: “You
gain the paladin power divine challenge. The power
functions as normal, except that the radiant damage
equals your Charisma modifier. The damage
increases to 2 + your Charisma modifier at 11th level
and 4 + your Charisma modifier at 21st level.”
|
|
|
|
10 months ago ::
Aug 12, 2012 - 12:40AM
#8
|
|
|
Original hybrid rules and the ones published in the PHB3 it was an IR. It was changed in the update that transitioned a lot of content into essentials... and most of that update never made it into the CB/Compendium (hell, parts of it never made it into the compiled update doc).
|
|
|
|
10 months ago ::
Aug 12, 2012 - 2:43PM
#9
|
Date Joined:
Nov 16, 2010
|
Original hybrid rules and the ones published in the PHB3 it was an IR. It was changed in the update that transitioned a lot of content into essentials... and most of that update never made it into the CB/Compendium (hell, parts of it never made it into the compiled update doc).
And that's why this stuff is so confusing to people that started this far into the development cycle. I missed the first 2 years, so a lot of the things I take for granted weren't the original rules (stealth was a big one).
|
|
|
|
10 months ago ::
Aug 13, 2012 - 6:57AM
#10
|
Date Joined:
Sep 14, 2008
|
I was thinking of making something similar. Although, I picked up virtuous strike for my paladin at-will so I can make use of the starfire womb feat at level 4. The idea being, if i get hit with some nasty save ends effect, I could use virtuous strike and get two chances with a +2 to save against it. I also traded in heroic effort for echoing dirge, so I could have a decent ranged option for dealing with minions and swarms.
|
|
|
