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10 months ago ::
Aug 10, 2012 - 12:39AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Aug 10, 2012
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Hi all, I'm just wondering what you would suggest for the best summoner in the game. Only looking at Artificer and Wizard right now. Does anyone have any builds or links they could give me?
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10 months ago ::
Aug 10, 2012 - 12:46AM
#2
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Date Joined:
Oct 28, 2010
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Druids have the best summons. They may not be quite as good as the Wizard's overall, but they operate independently, and scale remarkably well (Giant Toad from L1 can easily remain relevant towards the end of paragon and into Epic).
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10 months ago ::
Aug 10, 2012 - 12:53AM
#3
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Date Joined:
May 15, 2007
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IMHO the feat Primal Summing Expertise alone gives druids the top spot as epic tier summoners. However the marilith summoner/archspell wizard summner topped the DPR kings for a while.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 10, 2012 - 7:45AM
#4
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It's not technically summoning per keyword, but Shamans with at-will Spirit Companions can be incredibly versatile "summoners" at level one.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 10, 2012 - 8:10AM
#5
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IMHO the feat Primal Summing Expertise alone gives druids the top spot as epic tier summoners. However the marilith summoner/archspell wizard summner topped the DPR kings for a while.
Depends on how you think it works. Under the conservative interpretation, it really isn't all that great...
Wizards really have more support for being a summoner overall. The old Wizard handbook has a sample build (by me) that really needs to be updated.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 10, 2012 - 9:12AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Jun 15, 2008
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Wizards have demonstrated superior DPR and are widely considered to be the best controller class; thus a Wizard with a summoner package will be a stronger build overall. It's debatable whether or not Wizards are the best summoners, however. In terms of the number of minions you can field, Sentinel Druids get a persistent animal companion on top (a far more active participant in combat than a familiar). And their minions are usually better when acting alone--a key consideration when summoning en-masse.
I'm unsure whether Druids or Wizards have more summoning spells in total, but if anyone here wants to count that could go a long way towards settling the debate.
Shamans become an option if you don't care about having access to more than one minion at a time. A Shaman's spirit companion is designed as a class feature instead of as a build option, which means their pet integrates more tightly with the class. Shamans spend a lot of time acting through their companions, starting at level 1.
Alternatively, you can wield the DM's monsters by rolling a Tiefling enchanter.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 10, 2012 - 9:19AM
#7
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"Thing on the board" and "Summon" are not the same thing. Summers are powers with the Summoning keyword. Most of the stuff you listed is Conjurations.
Wizards have more Summoning powers, more Summoner PPs, and more Summoner feats. Not to mention a class feature specifically tied to Summons. One which, it should be noted, actually makes Summons not get one-shot by MM3 level damage expressions.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 10, 2012 - 10:24AM
#8
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Date Joined:
May 15, 2007
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IMHO the feat Primal Summing Expertise alone gives druids the top spot as epic tier summoners. However the marilith summoner/archspell wizard summner topped the DPR kings for a while.
Depends on how you think it works. Under the conservative interpretation, it really isn't all that great...
Wizards really have more support for being a summoner overall. The old Wizard handbook has a sample build (by me) that really needs to be updated.
What is the conservative interpretation?
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10 months ago ::
Aug 10, 2012 - 10:36AM
#9
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Well, just to get the background set: some people think you can use multiple minors to make the summon attack multiple times. Barring Revenant minor action exploits, this isn't as awesome as it sounds. Your encounter powers still ought to be better, so you're not going to downgrade a Standard for it. Which leaves you with your Move and a Minor. Assuming you don't have to move into position (which I'll buy, this is Epic and leaders can and should be enabling movement) that is 2 attacks. But you gave a command to your Summon, so they don't get their Instinctive Action. So you're one attack up over normal under what is really a best case scenario. That isn't bad, or anything, multi-attacks are obviously good, but you're not getting it every round and it isn't exactly striker level damage.
On the other hand, the Summoning rules state that if a Command is a Minor Action, you can only give it once per round. PSE allows you to Command the creature as a Minor. So you are... zero attacks up, at the cost of a feat and a minor. Though it mitigates the danger of Instinctive Action for some of the more dangerous Summons.
Again, if you go with the first idea+rev action cheese, that is actually pretty stellar... but it is less damage then most other rev action cheese and you really oughta go for the aged gouda and not the cream cheese if you go down that route.
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