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11 months ago ::
Aug 09, 2012 - 3:05PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Jul 26, 2009
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Okay Rules Forum, got a question for ya! I'm in a game and the Wizard player uses Magic Missile. Looking over his damage total, it's obvious that he's adding Bonuses to damage rolls to MM and when I said that those bonus weren't supposed to add in, he got rather... irritated. I pointed out that those bonuses require a DAMAGE ROLL and he pointed out that since the power doesn't include any listed damage dice, it's the same as rolling a d0. When I said no, that's not how it works I was accused of rules lawyering and making his character unplayable.
He was so far adding Dual Implement Spellcaster to it and hge was talking about taking Admixture Fire and Astral Fire at 11th to add even more to the damage on top of DIS and whatever item bonuses he manages to acquire.
I read through my PHB, my RC, the Online Compendium and I even fed it through the CB a few times. Optimizing it out I got a max of 15 at lv 12. So I want your view of this.
Spiteful Wizard and Voice of Reason of the House of Trolls
The Silent God of the House of Trolls
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11 months ago ::
Aug 09, 2012 - 3:31PM
#2
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He is, um, lying. A damage roll is literally defined (RC 222) as rolling dice to determine damage. Is he rolling dice? No? Not a damage roll.
Then you just go over each of the game elements he is adding and point out they all say "damage rolls."
Also, smack him. I find that usually causes people to either leave or straighten up. Either way, you win.
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11 months ago ::
Aug 09, 2012 - 5:45PM
#3
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Date Joined:
Sep 29, 2009
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Have him look at the rules for magic misile they have to tell you that you get to add your implement bounus to damage... you know because you should not be able to normally, you only get to add an implement because there is an exception to the normal rules.
Beguiling strands dose not even get that.
The sea looks at the stabillity of the mountian and sighs.
The mountian watches the freedom of the sea and cries.
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11 months ago ::
Aug 09, 2012 - 5:52PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Jul 26, 2009
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I understand that. It's the other player that believes he is being punished for taking Magic Missile and that it is now worthless and will never ever be useful.
Spiteful Wizard and Voice of Reason of the House of Trolls
The Silent God of the House of Trolls
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11 months ago ::
Aug 09, 2012 - 5:58PM
#5
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Date Joined:
Sep 29, 2009
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Well... it has long range... and never misses.
Many people don't like the new magic missile.
If your group wants a house rule to make it better go ahead as long as you all understand it's a house rule.
The sea looks at the stabillity of the mountian and sighs.
The mountian watches the freedom of the sea and cries.
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11 months ago ::
Aug 09, 2012 - 6:54PM
#6
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Date Joined:
Dec 18, 2010
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The old version (in PH) before change Magic Missile Attack 1 You launch a silvery bolt of force at an enemy. At-Will ✦ Arcane, Force, Implement Standard Action
Ranged 20 Target:One creature Attack:Intelligence vs. Reflex Hit:2d4 + Intelligence modifier force damage. Increase damage to 4d4 + Intelligence modifier at 21st level. Special:This power counts as a ranged basic attack. When a power allows you to make a ranged basic attack, you can use this power. I quiet usable - it might be more diplomatic to negotiate. Our group certainly decides that we prefer a couple of the original rules rather than the errata rules.
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11 months ago ::
Aug 09, 2012 - 7:31PM
#7
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I understand that. It's the other player that believes he is being punished for taking Magic Missile and that it is now worthless and will never ever be useful.
He's wrong on the first part, but right on the second two. Magic Missile hasn't been useful since 2nd Edition. Since he took the power not understanding how it worked, let him swap it out for a different one gratis (aka don't make him wait for a level-up to retrain).
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
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11 months ago ::
Aug 09, 2012 - 7:32PM
#8
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Well... it has long range... and never misses.
It also never hits, so you don't get on-a-hit triggers.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
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11 months ago ::
Aug 09, 2012 - 10:04PM
#9
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I understand that. It's the other player that believes he is being punished for taking Magic Missile and that it is now worthless and will never ever be useful.
Is he a Mage? Because it is hardly a punishment to "take it" when he gets it for free, in addition to his two other at-wills. If he is not a Mage (Arcanist) he took it voluntarily and has no reason to compalin.
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11 months ago ::
Aug 09, 2012 - 10:08PM
#10
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If he is not a Mage (Arcanist) he took it voluntarily and has no reason to compalin.
Yes, he does. He thought it worked one way, and he was mistaken. He shouldn't be penalized for that; the OP should let him swap the power out.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
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