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10 months ago ::
Aug 08, 2012 - 11:37AM
#41
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Date Joined:
Nov 17, 2003
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If I knew the answer, I'd already be interviewing at WotC's marketing department. Seriously though, I think a lot of people don't see how playing a good adventure path can be very different, and much funner, than traveling through the low-AI, rather static world of a CRPG.
Having played with many different DMs across many different editions and other RPGs, the sad conclusion that I've drawn is that with the average DM a PnP RPG is not more fun than a CRPG, and is often more boring to boot. It is only with the better DMs that a PnP RPG comes into its own.
The last time I looked into an Encounters game (admittedly about 2 years ago), my eyes glazed over from boredom at the dull monotone and lack of emotion from the DM.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 08, 2012 - 11:48AM
#42
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- Forum Guide
- Hero Craftsman Gold Medalist
- Master Dungeon Master
Date Joined:
Jun 23, 2005
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I think a lot of people don't see how playing a good adventure path can be very different, and much funner, than traveling through the low-AI, rather static world of a CRPG.
Agreed. But because of the reputation of silliness, people don't try.
Give a lot of low level adventures of all sorts that showcase the value of roleplaying?
The people who think tabletop roleplaying is silly aren't shopping for adventures. The people curious about D&D have plenty of material available on the website.
And yes, it was tried. And tried. And tried.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 08, 2012 - 2:47PM
#43
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Date Joined:
Sep 26, 2001
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My beef with their marketing is that they don't do enough to attract new players; they seem to be on a mission to win back old customers, which I personally find almost offensive. I'd much rather they lured new players in with new concepts and directions for the game than see D&D regress in an attempt to appeal to the old fan base.
Seems to me they've done everything they probably have the resources to do to get the word out to new players. 4e was a huge splash on the gaming scene, so certainly everyone old or new that pays any attention knew about it. It was all over social media, in every game and book store, promoted with Encounters, supported with LFR, and then promoted more with Lair Assault. They did special game days, etc etc etc. They put out a red box to go in toy stores.
Just about all of that targets old or lapsed players or the rare exiting gamer who hadn't yet tried D&D.
Short of some preposterously expensive media campaign that is simply NOT going to happen what else could they do to reach out to new players? Who ARE the potential new players?
Computer gamers, fans of fantasy novels and anction movies, fans of comic books, MMO players (thus "4e is an MMO!" - WotC /wishes/ it were, they'd be burried in money), and, of course, younger kids who haven't embraced a hobby yet. How to reach them? Not sure - maybe social media and conventions dedicated to some of those related things?
However, I do get the impression that 4e attracted a lot of new players. I'm guessing that the combined markets of D&D, Pathfinder, and retro-clones are significantly bigger than just the market for D&D in 2007. retro-clones & Pathfinder pulled existing D&Ders away from D&D. 4e must have attracted new players. IMPX, 4e is played by a younger crowd that 3.5 was. At my FLGS, encounters is running 3 tables - officially 18 players - and only 3 or 4 of us had been playing 3.5 when 4e came out. A couple had played AD&D back in the day and were lured back by the Red Box. The rest are new to the hobby, several via M:tG. I see the same thing at conventions. Pathfinder and older eds are as numerous (or post-Essentials, a little more numerous) as 4e, but the 4e players are younger on average. Of course, convention-goers tend to be older, I've seen the same faces at some conventions for the last 20-30 years.
Of course, it's easy to see the great failing of 4e in the success of Pathfinder (and retro-clones) - and that means trying to win back older customers.
Love 4e? Concerned about its future? Join the Old Guard of 4e"You want The Tooth? You can't handle The Tooth!" - Dahlver-Nar. "If magic is unrestrained in the campaign, D&D quickly degenerates into a weird wizard show where players get bored quickly" - E. Gary Gygax
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10 months ago ::
Aug 08, 2012 - 3:37PM
#44
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Date Joined:
Nov 17, 2003
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Computer gamers, fans of fantasy novels and anction movies, fans of comic books, MMO players (thus "4e is an MMO!" - WotC /wishes/ it were, they'd be burried in money), and, of course, younger kids who haven't embraced a hobby yet. How to reach them? Not sure - maybe social media and conventions dedicated to some of those related things?
So....there is a significant number of potential fans who haven't heard that D&D exists?
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10 months ago ::
Aug 08, 2012 - 4:09PM
#45
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Date Joined:
Dec 17, 2005
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Why would you teach people to play the game by using d6's. If they don't have dice, then WotC should provide them with an on-line dice roller ( which they still have). D&D has a quickplay rules guide, which can be found by google searching "How to play D&D". The D&D Red Box has a single player mode that teaches you how to play. This is still a good selling product, (at least that's what my FLGS owner told me). In the middle of the front page it says "NEW TO D&D". Click it and follow the links to the "what is D&D", the quick start rules and 2 starting adventures. What more do you want?
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10 months ago ::
Aug 10, 2012 - 4:15PM
#46
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Computer gamers, fans of fantasy novels and anction movies, fans of comic books, MMO players (thus "4e is an MMO!" - WotC /wishes/ it were, they'd be burried in money), and, of course, younger kids who haven't embraced a hobby yet. How to reach them? Not sure - maybe social media and conventions dedicated to some of those related things?
So....there is a significant number of potential fans who haven't heard that D&D exists?
Yes, exactly.
(Speaking from the 18-23 age group) Even people who have heard of D&D usually have no idea what it is, and are more likely to have negative associations with the brand name than positive ones (usually because of horror stories from misguided older relatives or stereotyping in entertainment). I only ever heard of it, because a childhood friend of mine's dad played when he was younger and gave my friend the 3e books for his birthday one year.
I'd say, at least 90% of the people I've played with had no idea what D&D was before that, except for those who had already heard me or other friends talk about it. As a DM, it's ridiculously easy for me to find players in the 18-23 age group (finding a DM, however, would be a whole other story).
We grew up with Orcarina of Time and spent ridiculous amounts of time trying to catch 150+ pokemon. To us, there is nothing silly about getting together with some friends, cracking a few beers, rolling some dice, and going on a f**king quest!
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10 months ago ::
Aug 10, 2012 - 4:44PM
#47
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Date Joined:
Jun 16, 2007
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The Wizards site is pretty dense visually, so I guess that can put off anyone that doesn't want to spend more than five seconds scrutinizing a page. I remember that the most recent layout took me a while to parse when the change happened.
You know what Wizards of the Coast could actually use to help get newcomers into it just by visiting the site? An ad video. Something that shows what the game looks like in play. If there's one thing that's really hard for people to understand no matter what you say to them, it's "so how do you play it?" Heck, who needs a video? Just some photos or artwork of what D&D can look like generically would suffice.
But yeah, most of the OP's problems with the site are pretty baseless. Wizards of the Coast doesn't have a great marketing track record, but their site isn't one of their faults. It's pretty good.
I don't use emoticons, and I'm also pretty pleasant. So if I say something that's rude or insulting, it's probably a joke.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 12, 2012 - 10:22AM
#48
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Date Joined:
May 18, 2012
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Im back.
my issue is with the navigation of the WOTC site, but on a broader level its about them fracturing their fan base,and making it tough for new players to enter the game by creating the skirmish game and all these "sub games" and asking new customers/players to decide which one they want to find out more about.
newsflash:
DnD is ALREADY A MIX OF BOARDGAME, WARGAME, AND STORYTELLING GAME.
Heres the big thing marketing/development hasn't figured out yet:
WOTC can make products that emphasize the boardgaming ascpect (like a red box type thing) for new players unfamilar with rpg'ing, they can make products that emphasize the wargaming aspect (pre-painted boxes of minis and maps), when they want, and they can make products that emphasize flexibility and DM control (the PHB/DMG hardcovers).
WITHOUT changing the rules ENOUGH TO CALL IT A NEW GAME.
it AALLL needs to be ..just DND. one of the most recognizable brand names in the world.
Instead of being STYMIED that there are so many playing styles, WOTC can be USING THAT to reel in new players, and satisfy (well, almost) everyone.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 12, 2012 - 10:39AM
#49
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Date Joined:
May 18, 2012
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and I stick by my guns: any quick start pdf offered online (and there needs to be one), needs to use six siders (use 3d6 for attacks? i dunno figure it out). Whats the average ten year old kid supposed to do when he downloads it? how many customers/new players were lost because a kid didnt want to bother buying dice or he put it off long enough to get distracted?
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10 months ago ::
Aug 12, 2012 - 10:44AM
#50
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Date Joined:
Jan 29, 2005
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and I stick by my guns: any quick start pdf offered online (and there needs to be one), needs to use six siders (use 3d6 for attacks? i dunno figure it out). Whats the average ten year old kid supposed to do when he downloads it? how many customers/new players were lost because a kid didnt want to bother buying dice or he put it off long enough to get distracted?
You know there are PLENTY of ways of making a dice roller without needing physical dice. Heck, there are several really good apps for most smart phones, which I would wager many people have access too. The core dice are pretty cheap. If anything, add a coupon to the books for a free set of generic dice, or set up a deal with Amazon. Changing the mechanics to only d6 is simply unnecessary.
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