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10 months ago ::
Aug 02, 2012 - 9:26PM
#1
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Date Joined:
May 19, 2011
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Just a quick question on the Carnage Weapon rules:
The text on a carnage weapon says "When you roll the maximum result on at least one of this weapon's damage dice, the target takes extra damage equal to twice the weapon's enhancement bonus."
Does that bonus apply to each damage die rolled?
For example, a Carnage Falchion +3, a 2d4 weapon. Let's say I roll two 4's on those 2d4's: Is that 4 + 6 damage or 4 + 12 damage?
I remember a player at one of my groups used a carnage falchion for his avenger, and I thought that he was applying the double enhancement damage to each d4 he rolled, but the way that text is worded from the weapon makes it sound like even if you roll double fours with 2d4 you just get that bonus once.
Also, does that damage apply to the critical dice of the weapon?
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10 months ago ::
Aug 02, 2012 - 9:29PM
#2
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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"one die" is a singular polyhedron.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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10 months ago ::
Aug 02, 2012 - 10:08PM
#3
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Date Joined:
May 28, 2009
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"...on at least one..." implies once per damage roll.
It would not apply to critical dice as they are not weapon damage dice.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 03, 2012 - 1:32AM
#4
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"one die" is a singular polyhedron.
I think you made the same mistake I did when I first read the OP. He's not asking whether you need to roll a 4 on both of the 2d4 to get the bonus. He's asking whether you get the bonus twice if you roll a 4 on both d4s.
"...on at least one..." implies once per damage roll.
Yeah, you only get the bonus at most once per entire damage roll, because untyped bonuses from the same named game element never stack unless the game element explicitly tells you they do. Scratch that; it's not actually a bonus, is it? And AFAIK there's no similar non-stacking rule for extra damage. Bugger. OK, so we do have to rely on the implications of the "at least one" wording. I hate it when we have to assume a designer actually thought through the implications of the precise wording they used, because there's a lot of evidence that they mostly don't...
It would not apply to critical dice as they are not weapon damage dice.
It would, however, apply to high crit dice, because they are explicitly [W].
The really tricky bit is what you do with the maxed-[W] damage from a crit. On the one hand, you haven't physically rolled the weapon's damage dice, so you haven't technically "rolled the maximum result". On the other hand, when you score a crit, the target takes "the maximum damage possible from the attack ... as if the maximum result had been rolled for damage", and if you had rolled the maximum result, you would have added the carnage bonus. Personally, I'd say the carnage bonus always gets added in (once only) to every critical hit. But I wouldn't fault a DM for ruling otherwise and only applying it if you roll the maximum on one of the high crit dice.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 03, 2012 - 3:06AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Apr 27, 2009
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Carnage can only be applied once to each damage roll, independant of the number of actual max dice you got. "When you roll the maximum result on at least one of this weapon's damage dice, the target takes extra damage equal to twice the weapon's enhancement bonus."
There is no mentioning of "per die" or similar, that would indicate otherwise.
The real question is, what was brought up in the Avenger-Handbook thread, do we have to treat the term "weapon damage die" as being the whole [W] or can it be separated into its parts?
This is very important, as the Falchion would either have a 50% chance per [W] to trigger it, when each of the d4 counts separate or a 6.25% chance triggering Carnage if the whole [W] counts and both d4 have to show a 4.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 03, 2012 - 7:54AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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I answered that above. A damage die is a singular polyhedron.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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10 months ago ::
Aug 05, 2012 - 11:55AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Jan 21, 2011
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I answered that above. A damage die is a singular polyhedron.
But a "weapon's damage die" is specifically defined, and can be more than one polyhedron. RC 273, "If the weapon's damage die is an expression of multiple dice..."
And later on "For instance, a greatclub (which has a damage die of 2d4)..."
It's not intuitive. When Carnage says "weapon's damage dice," that's [W]s, not individual polyhedra.
I am okay with you saying my argument is stupid, or commits the munchkin fallacy, or any other bad thing you want. Particularly if you give a reason/explanation for it.
However, I will ignore any post that calls me stupid, or a munchkin, or what have you. Not because it bothers me; I've just found that people only start name-calling when that's the best argument they have left.
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