Ok so a player in my campaign is a necropolitan cleric. He wants to keep his nature as an undead secret, so he picked trickery domain and some ranks on disguise. He also got a disguise had and picked the Divine insight spell. Here comes the questionable part. He claims that by casting the divine insight and then disguising himself as a living human I should roll his disguise check with the bonus of the divine insight and keep it until he decides to change the disguise, even if that is for days. His reasoning that the disguise skill says "one Disguise check per use of the skill", so unless he does something to change that disguise he has that one check for ever.
My thoughts are that he keeps that divine insight bonus on his check until the duration of the spell ends (1 hour per lvl), counting from the moment he makes the disguise (morning).
Another player argues that disguise works like spot vs hide and he has to make a new use of the disguise skill for different encounters. For example if he walks past the gates and the guard suspects him, he rolls spot vs disguise, later if he draws attention from a paladin, that paladin will roll spot vs a new disguise check. That player explains the "one Disguise check per use of the skill" as meaning one check versus everyone in the encounter
So who`s right here? A - One check, with one spell until he chooses to change his disguise? B - One check, with one spell until the spell duration ends, at which time he looses the bonus from the spell but his roll remains. C - One check for every different encounter, with the spell bonus counting only for the first encounter?? D - Something completely different that we completely missed.
Since the one skill check applies to that particular disguise, it should last for as long as the disguise self effect that the hat of disguise employs. For a standard hat of disguise (with a caster level of 1), that's 10 minutes. The next use of the hat will require a new Disguise check. Note, however, that anyone interacting with the disguise also gets a Will save to see through its magic. If they succeed, they'll remain able to see through it for that entire use of the hat.
Though that's sort of true for any disguise. For example, if he used mundane means instead of magic, his disguise would likewise depend on the materials used (typically the props, makeup, and so on in a disguise kit). So a swim in the river or a walk in the rain might require a new Disguise check for someone concealing the normal appearance of their skin.
Most of the time, it should just save you from having to worry about what every guard in existence thinks of undead, but he will have to also be careful of actions that may tip other people off to something strange. People with ranks in Spellcraft may well notice if he starts healing himself with inflict spells, for example, but the majority of regular people on the street (including most guards) should remain safely oblivious to his true nature.
The kraken stirs. And ten billion sushi dinners cry out for vengeance. - Good Omens
= My most popular campaign item; for all your adventuring convenience.Show
Zauber's Mutable Rod: This rod has a number of useful functions that make it easier to live in the wilderness. It is made of polished wood, with five studlike buttons on one end. Each button produces a different effect when pressed. Unless otherwise noted, the rod’s functions have no limit on the number of times they can be employed. • When button 1 is pressed, one end of the rod produces a small flame, equivalent to a candle. • When button 2 is pressed, the rod unfolds into a two-person tent, complete with bedrolls and warm blankets. • When button 3 is pressed, the rod becomes a one-handed hammer, suitable for pounding pitons into a wall. • When button 4 is pressed, the rod becomes a sturdy iron spade. • When button 5 is pressed, the rod becomes a wooden bucket able to hold 2 gallons of liquid. Once per day, it can be commanded to fill with fresh water. If the rod is seriously damaged or broken in any of its alternate forms (button 2, 3, 4, or 5), it reverts to its basic rod form and cannot be activated for 24 hours. Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Rod, minor creation; Price 375 gp; Weight 2 lb.
I thought the hat of disguise lasts for ever, like a continuous magic item.
Well, it says that "This apparently normal hat allows its wearer to alter her appearance as with a disguise self spell." Without any further clarification, that should mean the duration as well, since it doesn't specifically state that the effect is continuous until dismissed, lasts for 1 round, or any other kind of measurement of use.
There isn't anything stating how it works, except that it works like the spell (it even fails to mention its activation type, though given the pricing, it's probably activated by a command word).
The kraken stirs. And ten billion sushi dinners cry out for vengeance. - Good Omens
= My most popular campaign item; for all your adventuring convenience.Show
Zauber's Mutable Rod: This rod has a number of useful functions that make it easier to live in the wilderness. It is made of polished wood, with five studlike buttons on one end. Each button produces a different effect when pressed. Unless otherwise noted, the rod’s functions have no limit on the number of times they can be employed. • When button 1 is pressed, one end of the rod produces a small flame, equivalent to a candle. • When button 2 is pressed, the rod unfolds into a two-person tent, complete with bedrolls and warm blankets. • When button 3 is pressed, the rod becomes a one-handed hammer, suitable for pounding pitons into a wall. • When button 4 is pressed, the rod becomes a sturdy iron spade. • When button 5 is pressed, the rod becomes a wooden bucket able to hold 2 gallons of liquid. Once per day, it can be commanded to fill with fresh water. If the rod is seriously damaged or broken in any of its alternate forms (button 2, 3, 4, or 5), it reverts to its basic rod form and cannot be activated for 24 hours. Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Rod, minor creation; Price 375 gp; Weight 2 lb.
I thought the hat of disguise lasts for ever, like a continuous magic item.
Well, it says that "This apparently normal hat allows its wearer to alter her appearance as with a disguise self spell." Without any further clarification, that should mean the duration as well, since it doesn't specifically state that the effect is continuous until dismissed, lasts for 1 round, or any other kind of measurement of use.
There isn't anything stating how it works, except that it works like the spell (it even fails to mention its activation type, though given the pricing, it's probably activated by a command word).
It seems to me that the hat is a continious version of the spell. I would also say it runs until the hat is removed or it's cancelled by the wearer.
Saying it's like the disguise self spell is a matter of describing the effect.
It seems to me that the hat is a continious version of the spell. I would also say it runs until the hat is removed or it's cancelled by the wearer.
It's certainly possible for it to seem like that (and I've seen it that way myself on previous occasions), but reading it over, it's not really clear why it should be thought of that way.
What would you say it is that suggests a continuous duration to you?
The kraken stirs. And ten billion sushi dinners cry out for vengeance. - Good Omens
= My most popular campaign item; for all your adventuring convenience.Show
Zauber's Mutable Rod: This rod has a number of useful functions that make it easier to live in the wilderness. It is made of polished wood, with five studlike buttons on one end. Each button produces a different effect when pressed. Unless otherwise noted, the rod’s functions have no limit on the number of times they can be employed. • When button 1 is pressed, one end of the rod produces a small flame, equivalent to a candle. • When button 2 is pressed, the rod unfolds into a two-person tent, complete with bedrolls and warm blankets. • When button 3 is pressed, the rod becomes a one-handed hammer, suitable for pounding pitons into a wall. • When button 4 is pressed, the rod becomes a sturdy iron spade. • When button 5 is pressed, the rod becomes a wooden bucket able to hold 2 gallons of liquid. Once per day, it can be commanded to fill with fresh water. If the rod is seriously damaged or broken in any of its alternate forms (button 2, 3, 4, or 5), it reverts to its basic rod form and cannot be activated for 24 hours. Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Rod, minor creation; Price 375 gp; Weight 2 lb.
Ok, so what if he doesnt use the hat of disguise and he simple use divine insight alone. Does he roll one disguise check, with the bonus from divine insight and keeps that bonus until he decides to change his disguise?? Even if that is for days
It seems to me that the hat is a continious version of the spell. I would also say it runs until the hat is removed or it's cancelled by the wearer.
It's certainly possible for it to seem like that (and I've seen it that way myself on previous occasions), but reading it over, it's not really clear why it should be thought of that way.
What would you say it is that suggests a continuous duration to you?
Most such items that actually have durations say what they are. The hat does not, suggesting there is no duration.
Why don't you have the cleric cast gentle repose immediatley upon being made undead. Then do it right when the old spell fails. Way easier and cheaper for him.
5e comments and thoughts all in one place. Check it out to provide feedback, mock, or steal ideas. http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/28835423/Krusks_5e_Design_Goals?sdb=1
Ok, so what if he doesnt use the hat of disguise and he simple use divine insight alone. Does he roll one disguise check, with the bonus from divine insight and keeps that bonus until he decides to change his disguise?? Even if that is for days
It would theoretically last as long as the disguise, though mundane disguises are more vulnerable to disruption by mundane forces (wind, water, extremes of heat or cold, physical jostling, and so on could all mess up a regular disguise).
Most such items that actually have durations say what they are. The hat does not, suggesting there is no duration.
Well, it does and it doesn't. Looking at other wondrous items that do not state a duration (ones that grant the ability to do something like disguising themself or whatever, rather than those that just boost the wearer), there are some that seem to need to operate continuously in order to be of any use, like the dimensional shackles, while others become strange if they operate continuously. For example, you've got the drums of panic and eyes of charming (which respectively panic and charm creatures), but don't list a duration. So are creatures affected by the eyes of charming charmed until the wearer removes the lenses? Or how long does the elemental from a bowl of commanding water elementals or an elemental gem hang around?
You've also got items that explicitly call out their continuous nature, like the carpet of flying, the (minor) cloak of displacement, and the orb of storms.
The next closest item to the hat of disguise, the robe of blending, is about as clear as the hat on its effects, only noting that the ability to disguise yourself (again, as the disguise self spell) can be used at will.
There's quite a list of different possibilities there, some supporting the idea, some opposing it.
The kraken stirs. And ten billion sushi dinners cry out for vengeance. - Good Omens
= My most popular campaign item; for all your adventuring convenience.Show
Zauber's Mutable Rod: This rod has a number of useful functions that make it easier to live in the wilderness. It is made of polished wood, with five studlike buttons on one end. Each button produces a different effect when pressed. Unless otherwise noted, the rod’s functions have no limit on the number of times they can be employed. • When button 1 is pressed, one end of the rod produces a small flame, equivalent to a candle. • When button 2 is pressed, the rod unfolds into a two-person tent, complete with bedrolls and warm blankets. • When button 3 is pressed, the rod becomes a one-handed hammer, suitable for pounding pitons into a wall. • When button 4 is pressed, the rod becomes a sturdy iron spade. • When button 5 is pressed, the rod becomes a wooden bucket able to hold 2 gallons of liquid. Once per day, it can be commanded to fill with fresh water. If the rod is seriously damaged or broken in any of its alternate forms (button 2, 3, 4, or 5), it reverts to its basic rod form and cannot be activated for 24 hours. Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Rod, minor creation; Price 375 gp; Weight 2 lb.
