Ok, maybe I'm being dense here but what "speed problem" does a dwarf have if he's wearing medium or heavy armor when compared to a human wearing the same? I know you want some DEX for Combat Reflexes but isn't Crusader also a "heavy armor" wearing type? PB 25 also means I wouldn't be pushing DEX too high to start out with because of the cost.
Ok, maybe I'm being dense here but what "speed problem" does a dwarf have if he's wearing medium or heavy armor when compared to a human wearing the same? I know you want some DEX for Combat Reflexes but isn't Crusader also a "heavy armor" wearing type?
The "speed problem" I refer to is that his base speed, even though it isn't reduced in armor, is still 20', and unlike human chargers, he can't accelerate that simply by switching to a mithral breastplate (or similar armor with good AC and max dex - virtually all of them happen to be light). You can afford that breastplate around the same time the true power of charging can come online - prior to that, it's realistically just a +2 attack or +2 to a few specific checks (i.e. bull rushing). Don't get me wrong, that can make the difference at low levels - but charging doesn't come into its own until around level 6, which is about the time you'd be switching to light armor as a human anyway. And even though a dwarf doesn't need to make that switch (since his speed isn't reduced), he's still encouraged to do so - as an AoO tank, his dexterity is probably above what heavy armor allows.
Basically, dwarf chargers have an extra investment to make - speed - that human chargers don't. However, dwarves are uncommonly good at Stone Dragon maneuvers (due to their Stability trait, it makes it difficult to unseat them from the immobile stances) and have access to Deepstone Sentinel, neither of which reward an investment in speed. Thus, I'd just ignore it and focus on the strengths of the race.
And while most of the discipline and prestige class tend to prevent charging, there are Stone Dragon and Deepstone Sentinel abilities that work well with charges, but only Crashing Mountain Juggernaut is particularly noteworthy. So you will get some charging support, but you might notice better results in this particular party (which has a blaster mage and a ranger archer, i.e. both offensive damage-dealers) if you focused on the defense and just took the charging support as gravy.
PB 25 also means I wouldn't be pushing DEX too high to start out with because of the cost.
True, but a 15 is still within reach - especially if every other score is 14 or lower (the point where it stops being 1:1).
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So we were also given the option of rolling stats, so I decided to chance the randomness. I ended up with 18 STR, 16 DEX, 16 CON, 12 INT, 12 WIS, 8 CHA after racial adjusments. I would say that is a pretty good set of stats.
With that said, I am pretty sold on the idea of picking up fighter levels in order to supplement my need for feats. Because of this I feel much more comfortable picking up EWP: Spiked Chain, as dealing with one weapon will free up my wealth to spend on other things, such as potions of enlarge person and the likes. The deepstone seintinel is also very appealing to me, as it seems to further enhanace my abilites to lockdown an area and be a general neusance. The revised build is now:
This picks up the essential lock pieces early, but suffers on damage because of it. To supplement this, I plan to pick up more damaging maneuvers early on, which I will later swap for more defensive options. From here I will continue into crusader until I am able to pick up deepstone sentinel, and then probably round it off with something else, not sure what at this point. I might possibly pick up the fighter level at level 3, but because of the nature of the campaign (very dragon oriented) i wasn't really sure how much I would need combat reflexes.
Knowing that I will be facing a fair number of dragons I do have a question; if I were to trip a dragon who is flying, would they fall to the ground?
Edit: Come to think of it, is there really a reason to not take the first fighter level dip at level 3? I can't really find a reason.
So we were also given the option of rolling stats, so I decided to chance the randomness. I ended up with 18 STR, 16 DEX, 16 CON, 12 INT, 12 WIS, 8 CHA after racial adjusments. I would say that is a pretty good set of stats.
WOW!!! Don't you just love burning any assumptions the game books make about character stats by rolling an equivalent PB 42 stat array? Your character just gained a level or more of power without it ever being officially recorded anywhere. At least tell me those are "honest" stats that were just gained by one go at teh 4d6 drop lowest six times without involving any rerolled dies or redone stats either of which really pushes up the effective ePB of "rolled" stats; also tell me that someone rolled a set that is about PB 25 or even low to balance your amazing roll. I also like that with six "random" scores there isn't a single odd score among them.
Please don't take it personally but I'm just voicing my distain for "rolled stats" especially if the DM really wants the resources provided by the book to be any help. There is a big difference between what you can expect from a PB 25 character and one built using the equivalent of PB 42 for stats. Having STR 18 and DEX 16 gives you an easy leg up on many warrior builds as you can hit harder and more often while generally being harder to hurt back. Those stats may not be as high as some I've seen but with an extremely good array like that you can use a marginal or even inferior build and do very well with it even if playing with better built character who have "normal" ability scores.
Now as for your build I can't comment much about the ToB stuff but can agree that Fighter 1,2,4, and 6 are the "normal" stopping points for fighter levels. Ftr1 or 2 get you a feat each level while going through Ftr4 gets another +1 on each save, opens up weapon specialization (which may not be all that great), and gets you another feat. No one should EVER take Ftr5 and stop because you only get hp and BAB that level while Ftr 6 gives +1 to all saves and BAB plus another bonus feat.
Oh trust me, I was just a suprised as you were when I rolled the stats. The DM actually watched me roll them as well, so I am good to go as far as that is concerned. The normal system we use is roll two sets of 6, 4d6 drop the lowest die, keep the better set. This was actually the second set I rolled, the first was much worse. Only recently did I convince him that the PB system is less random and stops people from getting completely screwed on stats.
To be completely honest though, and not to sound like a prick, but I almost need to have that extra leg up, because as I mentioned in the first post, the rest of the part is pretty un-optimized. This makes things...difficult at times. I have tried to help them make their characters more effective in combat without ruinng the role playing elements for them, but they are a stubborn bunch. The wizard insists on single classing as a wizard and trying to hit things with a sword, and the warmage the same. The psion is starting to figure it out, and the ranger as well, but even then they are limited in what they want to do. The DM is also not one to shy away from a challenge, which is why I came here in the first place; I needed to make sure the rest of the party could do what they wanted to, while also being able to advance the campaign at the same time.
In my opinion building a highly optimized character with amazing stats in a party filled with unoptimized character is a formula for ruin. You're building a character to handle the workload of the party which could make some people happy but could also ruin it for others when you do everything. I'm going to tell you that a less optimized group can be a lot more fun to play with provided the DM is ready to tone things down a little. What you're doing is making a superhero that will be hard to challenge with something that could wipe the floor against anyone else in your party. I hope what I'm trying to say is making some sense but in a lot of ways what you want to do is like putting say a 12th-level character in the same party as a bunch of 6th-level characters (maybe not exactly) and expecting things to be easy.
I guess part of me is also worried about the statement "the DM is also not one to shy away from a challenge," which implies he likes building "killer" encounters for what could be an optimized party. If he really wants a challenge what he needs to do is figure out what he can put against this unoptimized party and have them perform acceptably. Normally I'd say that with a group of six PC the DM should run encounters at EL +1 the party's true average level to account for the extra help but if everyone isn't "up to speed" then he should still be able to run everything as if he were just facing a party of four.
Now if you're playing with a Wizard and a Warmage who think that their primary function is to "hit things with a sword" they should learn their mistake quickly and painfully. It's not that hard to build an acceptable "gish" character that could potentially mix things up a little but that certainly isn't something a straight wizard should ever strive for. If they want to play stupid then let natural selection do its job and cull them from the herd before they can reproduce.
I can see where you are coming from, but with the way the character is shaping up I will be doing what I am aiming to do very well, but really nothing more. That thing being controlling the battlefield, making it so that if the wizard DOES want to hit someone with a sword, he has the option to. Everyone else in the party seems to think that damage is king, and while it is true that someone needs to do the damage, not everyone in the party does. In the other campaign we were running, I played the BC wizard. Was I the best player in the party? By far. The thing is, they still got to do their damage and contribute meaningfully to combat, I just made sure that they could do their jobs more easily, and that we walked away unscathed. Role playing is still by far the biggest part of our play time, I just want to make sure everyone is alive to have their story develope in a meaningful way.
The DM loves to make encounters that really bring the party together and force us to think in creative ways. Sometimes this means making stupidly strong encounters that have an easy way to do it, and a hard way to do it. One example is when we were fighting a giant. He was standing under a rocky ledge. We could have just killed the giant straight up, but it would have been a long and treacherous fight. Instead we dropped the ledge on his head and then poked him until he died. I want to make the character in such a way that when we can't figure out the "easy" way of doing it, we still stand a chance. You worry about people not having fun, but the reality is that they complain when things are too hard. I want to take that worry away, while still having combat be somewhat exciting.
Have somebody make you an item of Enlarge Person or (augmented) Expansion so you don't have to fiddle around with potions. I don't know if tripping works on flying creatures, but I know that an AoO done with Stand Still makes them crash... If you can reach them.
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Just a thought, but if your group doesn't use XP penalties, maybe you could dip a few levels of Scout for the speed boost? If you went Scout4/Ftr2 you'd still get 3 bonus feats, an extra 10' of speed, and only lose +1 BAB.
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Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Buttler of the House of Trolls
We don't use XP penalties. The speed is certainly something of an issue I suppose, but honestly don't think it is worth giving up key points of the build in order to increase it. I do have 5 empty levels at the end of the build that I am trying to decide what to do with, and adding some speed boosts in there in place of more crusader might be worth it.
