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11 months ago ::
Jul 25, 2012 - 7:54PM
#201
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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Personally I think facing asumes a person does not look behind them for an entire 6 seconds durring a combat and that's just pants on head stupid to me. I can't imagine a seasoned combatant not checking behind them on every couple of seconds.
Flanking IS facing ... but adjusted to actually make sense and acknowledging that unless you are part of some shield wall its just too easy to adjust your direction...
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11 months ago ::
Jul 25, 2012 - 8:10PM
#202
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Date Joined:
May 12, 2009
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Flanking IS facing ... but adjusted to actually make sense
Flanking has nothing to do with Facing. 4E has Facing Rule, you basically see all around you at all time (RC 201)
Flanking is when 2 enemies are adjacent and on opposite sides or corners of you. This is more a matter of positionings and being surrounded. Wether you see in a specific direction or all around you is irrevelant.
Yan
Montréal, Canada
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11 months ago ::
Jul 25, 2012 - 8:24PM
#203
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All that work to refute the MMO analogy and Mearls just tosses it out there like it was a truth or something...
It is a well know fact DnD steals from everything, so it is no real surprise right?
Except for Lokiare of course.
Pro DnD Member of the Axis of Awesome Fighters: Using socks to kill monsters since 2012 DnD Next: Now with more then 4 minutes of Roleplay per gaming hour Spoiler:
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"If you can't make an interesting human fighter, then you aren't ready to play anything else yet" Edymnion
"The idea of resting up between encounters to fill-up on hit points and spells struck my meta-gaming nine-year-old as a distinct possibility. "Are you mad?" says my seven-year-old "This place is full of monsters!" "jamesgrahamuk
All characters have a story. Spoiler:
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Sometimes that story is short and sometimes it is long. They can be tragic, comic or absurd. Some teach. Some are just to fill the empty spaces in our lives. Rarely it is a transcendent fugue only half remembered but wondered at. And frequently: "it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." -William Shakespeare
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11 months ago ::
Jul 25, 2012 - 8:31PM
#204
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It's not hard to see. Many of us that felt 4e felt MMO'ish were put down and ridiculed even though the devs used MMOs as a key part of the design.
I don't much care for facing because I am used to notional combat. Grid combat starts to call in the notion of facing because it's now in your face, you cannot ignore it. All of the sudden facing as a concept becomes something that needs to be dealt with now that the minis are on the grid actually facing things.
I am just excited about DDN, because I want the modernized version of AD&D back and I want to play it.
Keep 4e style monsters. That is key
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11 months ago ::
Jul 25, 2012 - 8:38PM
#205
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With the way 4E turned out? I suppose it really was damaged by 3.x mentality, because after 3E rules unification, the next logical step is experience unification, but the execution was rather poorly done in the end, given that they went to the extreme end of "reduce variance in the game" by... well, significantly reducing player choice when it comes to character creation: you couldn't choose between the 4-15 powers outside of the designated power types, and you couldn't opt to just *not* have powers at all. At least, not until Essentials came out (to a degree), but by then 4E's reputation was very, VERY stained.
thats honestly just the way you are looking at it. i could argue with you all day about how completely wrong you are (but i wont, thank god for everybody), there is a LOT more variance in 4e than you are giving it credit for, even among the same class. hybrids ALONE give you far more control over customizing your pc than you ever had from Oe-2e (never played 3e). you could always have just mba spammed if you really wanted to "keep it real" i guess 
i see much more freedom AND many more options in 4e than most old editions (and that isnt a knock on older editions either, i love them). but the truth is theres wayyy more variance in 4e than you are trying to make it sound, and i think deep down, you probably knew that when you were typing
I'm only trying to look at it through the other side's point of view -- devil's advocate and all -- because frankly I love 4E for the very reasons you cited. I personally am perplexed as to why 4E has such a (wrongly advocated and negative) perception about it, hence my analysis.
No need to preach to the choir 
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11 months ago ::
Jul 25, 2012 - 8:40PM
#206
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I've removed content from this thread because Harassment and Masked Vulgarity are violations of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code of Conduct here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_...Please keep your posts polite, respectful, and on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks and refrain from using any form of vulgarity, even if it is masked. You're welcome to disagree but please do so in a respectful way! If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the "Report Post" button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty. Thanks!
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11 months ago ::
Jul 25, 2012 - 8:43PM
#207
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Gah! I can't stand dragonborn as a pc race...but...that avatar that Booker has is pretty darn neat. Haven't seen that one before. Sorry...couldn't resist commenting. Back at each other's throa...I mean...back to the conversational topic at hand!
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11 months ago ::
Jul 25, 2012 - 8:45PM
#208
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It's not hard to see. Many of us that felt 4e felt MMO'ish were put down and ridiculed even though the devs used MMOs as a key part of the design.
The ridicule of many posters who felt that way was in no small part due to how they phrased their objection. If you say you don't like certain elements because they evoke too much of an mmo feel, you're probably good. However, a lot of people who got ridiculed for feeling as you did just came out and said "4e is an mmo." Like we don't all know that's a steaming load.
Why Mechanics-Alignment Integration is Bad
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so why even play a fighter if you can play the paladin the exact same way behaviorally and get added power to boot. "Paladin" is about accepting better game-enhancing mechanics at the price of more rigid in game behavior.
Really? So it goes something like this?
Fighter: "I want to be a paladin."
NPC: "Really?"
Fighter: "Yes."
NPC: "Very well." Starts reading from a holy book while still in-character "Do you accept having to choose and stick to the lawful good alignment, eventhough neither of us actually knows that it exists or what it is?"
Fighter: "I do."
NPC: "Do you reject good game balance because you accidentally rolled a high Charisma?"
Fighter: "What?"
NPC: "I don't know what it means either."
Fighter: "Oh. Umm, ok I do."
NPC: "In the name of all that is metagamey and broken, accept these better game enhancing mechanics."
Fighter: "These what?"
NPC: "Just get out there and try to fulfill a million different people's notion of good while not violating and part of any of them."
So the system is designed such that every single hit needs to be described to avoid confusion? Here's a scenario. The players are nudists, everybody in the world are nudists, it's not weird, it's totally normal in this land. They are naked and they fight drakes taking damage throughout, but healing up with surges. Later they meet the guy who raised the drakes.
Part 1: I didn't describe any of the hits. What does he see?
Part 2: Lets say I described the drakes as biting the players, yet they healed up. What does he see?
D20 Modern Toon PC Race.
Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.
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11 months ago ::
Jul 25, 2012 - 9:19PM
#209
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Well I think a few people are being offensive in accusing the designer of being dishonest. The influence of MMOs on 4th Edition is clear, and let's be honest you'd have to have lived under a rock NOT to have been influenced by online gaming, but some of us don't think that's a bad thing.
It IS however, fair to point out that he seems to misunderstand what most 4th Edition players want out of the game. Also the strengths of the 4th edition system. Which is leading many to lose heart.
But if they DO only offer Vancian casting for Wizards?
...
Well then I know I'LL be working on third party material offering optional systems for spell point and AEDU Wizards and I doubt I'll be alone.
There is MONEY to be made in optional modules to give different casting systems to Wizards.
WotC would be foolish not to corner the market.
They will probably make the GSL more restrictive this time and only allow custom monsters, adventrues, and settings. Not custom rules...
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11 months ago ::
Jul 25, 2012 - 9:21PM
#210
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Date Joined:
Jul 29, 2009
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Vague assurances and empty promises...nothing new here.
Things that 5E needs to do:
-Make the use of battlemaps/miniatures the default.
-Make healing fun, magical AND non-magical needs to be an option. Long live the Warlord!
-Make magic items feel magic/mythical. I don't want a dagger +1, I want STING.
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