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11 months ago ::
Jul 27, 2012 - 10:49AM
#11
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Date Joined:
Jun 22, 2010
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Vampires are just as accurate as any other implement using class. Example: lvl4 vampire with 20 DEX: Most attacks would have +2 from half level, +5 from dex, +1 from magic ki-focus or holy symbol, and +1 from ki-focus or holy symbol expertise. That's +9 vs a non-AC defense. Same as a lvl4 wizard with 20 int, a +1 staff and staff expertise, or a lvl4 laser-cleric with 20 wis a +1 symbol and symbol experstise. Vampire and wizard also both have the option of spending an aditional feat on superior implement training and getting an accurate staff or accurate ki-focus for one more +1 to hit, meaning they could be at +10 by lvl4 in the best possible case. (this is similar to how weapon users can get superior weapon proficiency and take a weapon with a higher proficiency bonus by 1 than a similar-stated military weapon - like if you upgraded from a greataxe to a fullblade). Hope you get everything sorted out and your vampire player has a great time moving forward! It's one of my favorate classes. 
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11 months ago ::
Jul 27, 2012 - 10:45PM
#12
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Date Joined:
Jan 11, 2007
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Vampires are just as accurate as any other implement using class.
Example:
lvl4 vampire with 20 DEX:
Most attacks would have +2 from half level, +5 from dex, +1 from magic ki-focus or holy symbol, and +1 from ki-focus or holy symbol expertise.
That's +9 vs a non-AC defense. Same as a lvl4 wizard with 20 int, a +1 staff and staff expertise, or a lvl4 laser-cleric with 20 wis a +1 symbol and symbol experstise.
Vampire and wizard also both have the option of spending an aditional feat on superior implement training and getting an accurate staff or accurate ki-focus for one more +1 to hit, meaning they could be at +10 by lvl4 in the best possible case. (this is similar to how weapon users can get superior weapon proficiency and take a weapon with a higher proficiency bonus by 1 than a similar-stated military weapon - like if you upgraded from a greataxe to a fullblade).
Hope you get everything sorted out and your vampire player has a great time moving forward! It's one of my favorate classes.
This is the very issue I've had trouble with. The monk and vampire do not seem to be able to take superior implement training (Ki focus accuracy) and stack it with a magical accurate ki-focus. The reason being that there is no magical accurate ki focus on the character builder. There is a wizard magical accurate staff, orb, wand, etc.
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11 months ago ::
Jul 28, 2012 - 12:09AM
#13
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The reason being that there is no magical accurate ki focus on the character builder. There is a wizard magical accurate staff, orb, wand, etc.
Well, that's strange. The magic accurate ki focus shows up in the CB just fine for me.
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11 months ago ::
Jul 28, 2012 - 12:11AM
#14
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The reason being that there is no magical accurate ki focus on the character builder. There is a wizard magical accurate staff, orb, wand, etc.
Well, that's strange. The magic accurate ki focus shows up in the CB just fine for me.
Ditto.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
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11 months ago ::
Jul 28, 2012 - 12:37PM
#15
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Date Joined:
Jan 11, 2007
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What is the magical accurate ki focus implement called, because I can't find it.
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11 months ago ::
Jul 28, 2012 - 12:43PM
#16
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What is the magical accurate ki focus implement called, because I can't find it.
Just 'accurate ki focus'.
I don't think it will show up unless the character in question has the proficiency with it, so he has to take that feat first. Then you just go to Equipment, Marketplace, Weapon, then click on the box that lets you pick the category for your weapon; superior implement should be there. Click that, and you should have the option in the box below it for Accurate Ki Focus.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
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11 months ago ::
Jul 28, 2012 - 1:07PM
#17
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Date Joined:
Jan 11, 2007
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Ok, I've done some experiments. The Ki Focus Expertise will stack with Superior Implement Training (Accurate ki focus). The Implement Expertise (Ki focus) will stack with Superior Implement Training (Accurate ki focus). Ki Focus Expertise and Implement Expertise (Ki focus) do not stack. The magical accurate ki focus implements do not show up unless I do an active search using the words 'accurate ki focus'.
Thanks, Salla and everyone. Finally got this sorted.
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11 months ago ::
Jul 28, 2012 - 2:27PM
#18
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That's because Implement Expertise and Ki Focus Expertise both provide feat bonuses, and thus do not stack. There's no reason to take Implement Expertise, since Ki Focus Expertise gives you all those benefits and then some.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
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11 months ago ::
Jul 28, 2012 - 2:38PM
#19
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Date Joined:
Apr 29, 2006
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Ok, I've done some experiments. The Ki Focus Expertise will stack with Superior Implement Training (Accurate ki focus). The Implement Expertise (Ki focus) will stack with Superior Implement Training (Accurate ki focus). Ki Focus Expertise and Implement Expertise (Ki focus) do not stack. The magical accurate ki focus implements do not show up unless I do an active search using the words 'accurate ki focus'.
Rules of Thumb regarding stacking bonuses (Player's Handbook, pg275):
1) Untyped bonuses always stack.
2) Type bonuses of different types also stack
3) Typed bonuses of the same type do not stack.
The bonus's type is listed before the word "bonus". If there's nothing listed before the word "bonus", the bonus is untyped. For example, if something grants you a "+3 item bonus", then the bonus is of the item type and would not stack with other item bonuses. If it instead said "+3 bonus", the bonus is untyped and will stack with pretty much anything, including other untyped bonuses.
An accurate symbol provides an untyped +1 bonus to attack rolls, which is why it stacks with both feats.
Implement Expertise (Ki Focus) and Ki Focus Expertise both provide a feat bonus to attack rolls, which is why they do not stack. Further, Ki Focus Expertise provides other benefits that the older, outdated Implement Expertise (Ki Focus) feat does not. So there is no reason to take Implement Expertise (Ki Focus).
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11 months ago ::
Jul 30, 2012 - 1:48PM
#20
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Date Joined:
Jan 11, 2007
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The real problem was that my players could not find the magical accurate ki focus item to go with the superior implement training (accurate ki focus). But thanks anyway.
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