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2 months ago ::
Mar 22, 2013 - 2:41PM
#171
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Date Joined:
Mar 28, 2009
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It's not as ambiguous as it sounds.
Deathstrike triggers when a creature would be destroyed, in Ellerons example it's after blademasters attack resolves and the stack is clear. The boar would be destroyed at this point but it first can make a melee attack. Boom, both creatures die.
DS doesn't add an immediate trigger above the blademasters attack. It creates it's own stack when it would be destroyed.
In the previous example if both players had 1 morale and 12 levels of deployed leadership the drow player could cower for the 20 damage boar (or is it 30?) attacks for and still win.
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2 months ago ::
Mar 22, 2013 - 3:08PM
#172
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Date Joined:
Jun 20, 2003
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In the previous example if both players had 1 morale and 12 levels of deployed leadership the drow player could cower for the 20 damage boar (or is it 30?) attacks for and still win.
I don't think you're allowed to cower if you don't have enough morale....don't have rulebook here, but pretty sure that won't work.
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2 months ago ::
Mar 22, 2013 - 3:12PM
#173
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Date Joined:
Jun 20, 2003
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Aside from that, in any casual game I wouldn't have a problem regarding this a draw, but it would still be nice to find out what's the official ruling should this happen in a tournament setting.
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2 months ago ::
Mar 25, 2013 - 1:51AM
#174
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Date Joined:
Mar 25, 2013
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Me and my friend have different opinions about what is a legal source and what is not, and if a source is required at all to use certain actions. So we'd appriciate if someone would help us clarify this. The more replies the better!
Can we use for example Riposte as an action eventhough there is no damage to be prevented? Just using it to make a melee attack for 10 points of damage?
Or could we use Parry just to draw a card eventhough there's no damage to prevent?
Or does these two cards (and some other cards alike) require a source of damage to be used, or else they have no legal target (source) and therefor they'd cancel. And due to multiple effects on cards rule the "melee attack for 10 pts", or the "draw a card" effect would also cancel?
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2 months ago ::
Mar 25, 2013 - 3:54AM
#175
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Date Joined:
Apr 25, 2004
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Can we use for example Riposte as an action eventhough there is no damage to be prevented? Just using it to make a melee attack for 10 points of damage? Or could we use Parry just to draw a card eventhough there's no damage to prevent?
Playing an immediate reaction requires a valid trigger. You cannot play them whenever you like. I don't have my rule book handy, but I'm pretty sure it's stated like that.
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2 months ago ::
Mar 25, 2013 - 5:13AM
#176
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Date Joined:
Mar 25, 2013
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It says something like "whenever you are resolving an action you need to determine it's source". So does that mean i need a valid trigger to use Riposte or Parry?
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2 months ago ::
Mar 25, 2013 - 5:50AM
#177
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Date Joined:
Oct 16, 2010
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It says something like "whenever you are resolving an action you need to determine it's source". So does that mean i need a valid trigger to use Riposte or Parry?
Correct, there needs to be a valid acation on the stack. What needs to be true for an action to be valid, on the other hand, is not totally clear.
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2 months ago ::
Mar 25, 2013 - 5:59AM
#178
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Date Joined:
Mar 25, 2013
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Thanks for replying.
It also says in the next sentence that "Each source is a single effect from a creature, an Order card, a terrain square, or other game feature."
So could a hazardous terrain square be a source eventhough it has not dealt any damage to you yet?
Sorry if i go on about this...
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2 months ago ::
Mar 25, 2013 - 7:45AM
#179
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Date Joined:
Mar 25, 2013
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Can we use for example Riposte as an action eventhough there is no damage to be prevented? Just using it to make a melee attack for 10 points of damage? Or could we use Parry just to draw a card eventhough there's no damage to prevent?
Playing an immediate reaction requires a valid trigger. You cannot play them whenever you like. I don't have my rule book handy, but I'm pretty sure it's stated like that.
( I cant figure out how to quote properly....)
The rules say nothing about immediate actions requiring a valid trigger. This is what the rules say about playing immediate actions:
"Immediate actions are usually responses to other actions. They can be played on any player’s turn. Taking an immediate action taps the acting creature"
It simply says that it is an action that can be played on any players turn, and it taps the acting creature. That it happens to "usually" be in response to another action is not really important...
The source of an effect is determined first when the action is resolved, not at play time (When resolving an action, you need to determine its source).
If an action states that it needs a target, the target will have to be declared at play time though, but that target might be illegal once the action is resolved because of whatever else has happened on the stack. But in a case like "Parry", which prevents damage from 1 source (note: not target source), I interpret it like the source of which to prevent damage from is determined when the Parry action is resolved on that stack, at which time there might be no valid source to prevent damage from, but that would not stop the "Draw order card" effect from resolving properly, nothing stops that.
Consider the following Scenarios:
Scenario1:
Player1 makes standard action attack, statig the target of the action
Player2 responsed to that action with parry
No more responses
Stack is resolved, starting the parry.
Player2 determines that the source of which to prevent damage from is the standard action attack on the stack, which is a legal source. Parry is resolved and Player2 draws an order card.
The standard action is resolved, and the damage is prevented.
Scenario2:
Player1 is in the activation phase, and moves a creatures. Moving a creature is an action according to the rules.
Player2 decides to respond to that action by playing an immediate action: Parry. Now move action is on the stack, and parry on the stack.
No more responses
Parry is resolved, there is no legal source to prevent damage from. Parry is resolved, Player2 draws an order card (nothing prevents that)
Creature move is resolved, creature move
Scenario3:
Player1 is ending his turn
Before turn is ended player2 decides to play an immidiate action (remember, nothing stops that): Parry.
Parry goes on the stack
Player1 does not respond to parry
parry is resolved, no legal source to prevent damage from, but nothing stops Draw order card effect, player2 draws order card.
Player1 turns end.
For further clarification see the play example on page 9 of the rulebook:
"Chris doesn’t want to lose his Drider, so he responds to this action by playing the Uncanny Dodge card, letting him tap the Drider and discard an Order cardto prevent all damage from one source. Uncanny Dodge goes onto the stack above Killing Strike and resolves first: Chris discards a card, taps the Drider, and chooses to prevent the damage from Killing Strike. Then he discards Uncanny Dodge. When Killing Strike resolves, the Drider avoids taking
damage from it, and the Order card is discarded with no effect." See, the uncanny dodge goes on the stack, without needing any target. Chris chooses target source to prevent from first at resolve time, not at play time. That means that at play-time there does not need to be a valid source present, first at resolve time this is determined.
Thats my 2c.
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2 months ago ::
Mar 25, 2013 - 9:27AM
#180
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Date Joined:
Mar 25, 2013
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It says in the rulebook on page 8 that "When an action resolves, it checks whether the target is legal".
And it also says that "many actions specify a target, which require you to choose something". You could argue that the target on Parry ("Prevent 20 damage from 1 source") is the 1 source. Therefor you can't cast parry without having a target (source).
About the example on page 9. Chris is targeting the damage from the Killing Strike melee attack with Uncanny dodge.
You quoted it yourself but left out the whole example.
"Jennifer playes the Killing Strike card on her Dragon Knight tapping it to make a melee attack against an enemy Drider for 100 damage. Killing Strike goes on to the stack. Chris dosen't want to lose his Drider so he responds to this by playing the Uncanny Dodge".
MULTIPLE ACTIONS ON CARDS: Page number 9 states that when there are multiple actions on cards they go on the stack in reverse order they appear on card. So on the Uncanny dodge you place Prevent all damage first (just like on the example), and on top of that discard a card. Then you got discard a card on top which resolves first, then you have Prevent all damage. BUT on Parry you put Draw 1 Order card first on stack and then Prevent 10 damage on top of that which resolves first. So you first Prevent damage, then you draw a card. It's the same with Riposte and it's melee attack. This brings up the question whether or not you need a target source for Parry and Riposte like a Damage to prevent since that is the action on the card that comes first. Because when you resolve that first action on the Parry or Riposte card (Prevent damage) and no damage has been dealth, there is no source.
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