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11 months ago ::
Jul 16, 2012 - 5:09AM
#1
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They made a big fuss about uniting the editions and saying that modularity will allow you to play D&D in the style you want. The preview articles however seem to be taking a lot of traditional elements and setting them in stone while describing 5E's vaunted modularity as having less and less ability to change the game in a fundamental way.
It's also been a while since I've seen them trumpet the "5E will be for fans of all editions" line. Makes me wonder if this goal is still present, or even if it ever was more than empty marketing.
...whatever
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11 months ago ::
Jul 16, 2012 - 5:17AM
#2
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Date Joined:
Jun 29, 2011
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Put five d&d players in one room and ask what they really want in d&d next
Get five totally different answers.
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11 months ago ::
Jul 16, 2012 - 8:01AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Jun 16, 2004
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There's a d20 Monkey comic about WotC being trapped between two unsteady rockpiles with aspects from either side of the Edition Wars written on them. I would post it, but I'm at work, and I can't get to the comic.
But, I think that the question isn't "Is Wizards trying to unite the fanbase." I think the question is really, "Can Wizards unite the fanbase."
Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid Copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade." "Good!" said the Baron, sitting in his hall, "But Iron -- Cold Iron -- is master of them all." -Kipling Defenders: We ARE the wall! I've replaced the previous Edition Warring line in my sig with this one, because honestly, everybody needs to work together to make the D&D they like without trampling on somebody else's D&D. Miss d20 Modern? Take a look at Dias Ex Machina Game's UltraModern 4e! I am a hero, not a chump.
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11 months ago ::
Jul 16, 2012 - 8:28AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
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I think it can be done. They are trying to do it. But they are doing it wrong.
The original idea of a core kernel of rules with a pile of optional rules and guidelines is great.
The issue is the optional rules are not being talked about officially until after the forums erupt into an uncontrollable volcanic stream.
The other issue is the talk about the core with little mention of altering rules for the core. So the magma surfing starts.
Orzel, Halfelven son of Zel, Mystic Ranger, Bane to Dragons, Death to Undeath, Killer of Abyssals, King of the Wilds.
Constitution Based Class for Next!
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11 months ago ::
Jul 16, 2012 - 8:33AM
#5
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TO be honest, it really can't be done. I don't even blame WoTC. Or I don't think they are fully to blame.
Gamers are just stubborn people. They like what they like, and if you don't give them more of the same, they have a big tantrum.
Which means, WoTC either keeps trying to give them the same thing in a new package, or try and come up with something new.
Either way, they get slammed. It's a completely no win situation, in regards to moving DnD forward.
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11 months ago ::
Jul 16, 2012 - 8:34AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Jun 13, 2010
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I think it´s impossible to please everybody in a game when every one has different expectations form different past experiences. It´s easier to do a whole new thing and be successful than trying to do all things at the same time.
I think they lost focus on the modularity thing because the core rules have so many problems they can´t fix yet they are overwhelmed. The modularity would work best if they choose to work from 4E, that was already a stable system, and fix it making all the modularity from it. It would keep all the current fans, and bring a lot more.
Now they got back to an unstable core system, it´s going to take a while to get it working.
If the modularity thing will still be supported in a year from now. Who knows? it´s easy to do promises you can´t fulfill, and we have seeing WoTC doing it before.
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11 months ago ::
Jul 16, 2012 - 8:37AM
#7
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They made a big fuss about uniting the editions and saying that modularity will allow you to play D&D in the style you want. The preview articles however seem to be taking a lot of traditional elements and setting them in stone while describing 5E's vaunted modularity as having less and less ability to change the game in a fundamental way.
It's also been a while since I've seen them trumpet the "5E will be for fans of all editions" line. Makes me wonder if this goal is still present, or even if it ever was more than empty marketing.
I think they would love to accomplish this goal, but that doesn't mean it CAN be done. Basically the problem is that every game design creates its own 'ouvre', its own unique mix of themes, play styles, tone, conventions, canon, etc. All of that has to be fairly cohesive in order for a game to feel like it 'hits the spot'. Some games are more flexible than others but all of them need an identity.
Consider the differences between GURPS and D&D. They are both at this point about equally old games, and each one has gone through about the same number of editions. GURPS however isn't a game that is very strongly identified with. Nobody but geeks have ever heard of it (or even any of its genre supplements). The game by itself has no real identity. It is indeed GENERIC. It is a fun game and there are people that really like it and play it, but you never can get away from a certain sense of blandness with that game. Many of its core elements are compromises that are intended to be 'good enough' for a wide range of games, but it is never the "WOW, this is awesome!" type of game. Contrariwise look at the strong identification of players with D&D and specific editions of D&D. No modular system that is designed to please everyone and do everything will acomplish that...
That is not dead which may eternal lie
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11 months ago ::
Jul 16, 2012 - 9:07AM
#8
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I think it can be done. They are trying to do it. But they are doing it wrong. The original idea of a core kernel of rules with a pile of optional rules and guidelines is great. The issue is the optional rules are not being talked about officially until after the forums erupt into an uncontrollable volcanic stream. The other issue is the talk about the core with little mention of altering rules for the core. So the magma surfing starts.
Totally agreed.
As well, a problem comes up in that the core does not seem to follow their stated goals for it. The core was supposedly going to a be a simple base which you can then put more onto to create a more complex experience. However, only the Martial classes are simple. They made no attempt to present a simple casting system, and instead just copy-pasted the complex Vancian spellcasting system. It really makes it seem like they are forsaking design goals in order to try to appeal to a certain part of the fanbase.
EVERY DAY IS HORRIBLE POST DAY ON THE D&D FORUMS.
Everything makes me ANGRY (ESPECIALLY you, reader)
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11 months ago ::
Jul 16, 2012 - 9:41AM
#9
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Date Joined:
Nov 27, 2006
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They made no attempt to present a simple casting system, and instead just copy-pasted the complex Vancian spellcasting system.
Well what more do you want? D&D Vancian is already pretty damned simple;
1) You Lv. up.
2) You look at the chart.
3) You say "Oh, I've gained another spell of x lv."
4) And then you flip to the section of the book that covers spells of that lv. & pick one.
* Somtimes you may need to repeat steps #3 & 4.
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11 months ago ::
Jul 16, 2012 - 9:46AM
#10
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Date Joined:
Jun 16, 2004
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TO be honest, it really can't be done. I don't even blame WoTC. Or I don't think they are fully to blame.
Gamers are just stubborn people. They like what they like, and if you don't give them more of the same, they have a big tantrum.
Which means, WoTC either keeps trying to give them the same thing in a new package, or try and come up with something new.
Either way, they get slammed. It's a completely no win situation, in regards to moving DnD forward.
See: Unpleasable Fanbase and They Changed It, Now It Sucks.
Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid Copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade." "Good!" said the Baron, sitting in his hall, "But Iron -- Cold Iron -- is master of them all." -Kipling Defenders: We ARE the wall! I've replaced the previous Edition Warring line in my sig with this one, because honestly, everybody needs to work together to make the D&D they like without trampling on somebody else's D&D. Miss d20 Modern? Take a look at Dias Ex Machina Game's UltraModern 4e! I am a hero, not a chump.
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