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11 months ago ::
Jul 16, 2012 - 12:02PM
#31
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Read this:
community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/24861409/Harder_than_a_Rock:_The_Fighters_Handbook
Redesign your character, bearing in mind what your role is. Also bear in mind 4e heavily encourages refluffing.
Repost character and then ask for advice.
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11 months ago ::
Jul 16, 2012 - 12:11PM
#32
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Date Joined:
Mar 23, 2012
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Well, if the multiclass on Battle Cleric's Lore passes i can have the same AC as with a heavy shield. If not i am 2 points of AC behind.
@alcestis, the truth is i did not have a defender in mind when i joined the group, but fighter seemed the best way to go. Of course i was wrong, but since i like the class even if it does not match exactly my needs i want to roll with that and be effective. I have read most of the handbook, but even in desinging a more "traditional" fighter i do not want to go weapon_1 and board.
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11 months ago ::
Jul 16, 2012 - 12:13PM
#33
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Also sorry, i am dead set on not using a shield.
Then accept the fact you're going to get hit more if the DM doesn't "house rule" BCL.
It really is as simple as that. The Avenger can get very good defenses also, so take that in to account for your perception.
It's not "ecactly" a houe rule. Technically, clerics are allowed to swap healer's lore for BCL. When you MC cleric, you become a cleric, and gain Healer's Lore. When you get a retrain (the same elvel you get the feat), you can use your retrain to get BCL. Either way, Character builder won't let you do it, but it's pretty legal in terms of RAW (though it smells strongly of dairy, so you need to ask your DM.)
Also, I agree with Alcestis that you should read the Handbook, it's a very nice tool. That being said, You don't need to redesign the character, play what you want. You just need to make the mental aknowledgement that it's going to be harder to optimise. Ask your DM about BCL, as that will be the biggest help you're going to be able to give yourself.
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11 months ago ::
Jul 16, 2012 - 12:15PM
#34
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Berserker can be perfectly serviceable, but if you're talking optimization, Fighter is going to win out.
'nuff said.
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11 months ago ::
Jul 16, 2012 - 12:44PM
#35
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Date Joined:
Jan 27, 2009
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Also sorry, i am dead set on not using a shield.
Then accept the fact you're going to get hit more if the DM doesn't "house rule" BCL.
It really is as simple as that. The Avenger can get very good defenses also, so take that in to account for your perception.
It's not "ecactly" a houe rule. Technically, clerics are allowed to swap healer's lore for BCL. When you MC cleric, you become a cleric, and gain Healer's Lore. When you get a retrain (the same elvel you get the feat), you can use your retrain to get BCL. Either way, Character builder won't let you do it, but it's pretty legal in terms of RAW (though it smells strongly of dairy, so you need to ask your DM.)
Also, I agree with Alcestis that you should read the Handbook, it's a very nice tool. That being said, You don't need to redesign the character, play what you want. You just need to make the mental aknowledgement that it's going to be harder to optimise. Ask your DM about BCL, as that will be the biggest help you're going to be able to give yourself.
While i'm sure this debate as been done to death elsewhere and i'd hate to derail a thread, going nowhere mind you, i would like to voice my disagreement with swapping BCL for Healer's lore being RAW legal from a multiclass. You are not a Cleric or any other class when you MC into said class, you only qualify as for the feats an PP's of that class. Hybriding changes this and maybe paragon MCing but not just taking a MC feat.
Spoiler:
Show
Multiclass feats allow you to dabble in the class features and powers of another class. You might be a fighter who dips his toe into wizardry, or a warlock who wants a smattering of rogue abilities. Each class has a class-specific multiclass feat that gives you access to features from that class.
Class-Specific Feats
 There are two restrictions on your choice of a class-specific multiclass feat. First, you can’t take a multiclass feat for your own class. Second, once you take a multiclass feat, you can’t take a class-specific feat for a different class. You can dabble in a second class but not a third.
A character who has taken a class-specific multiclass feat counts as a member of that class for the purpose of meeting prerequisites for taking other feats and qualifying for paragon paths. For example, a character who takes Initiate of the Faith counts as a cleric for the purpose of selecting feats that have cleric as a prerequisite. These feats can qualify you for other feats; for example, a warlock who takes Sneak of Shadows can use the rogue’s Sneak Attack class feature, which means that he meets the prerequisite for the Backstabber feat.
Nowhere in the description of multiclass feats does it allow for the swapping of class features.
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11 months ago ::
Jul 16, 2012 - 12:49PM
#36
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Date Joined:
Jan 27, 2009
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Read this:
community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/24861409/Harder_than_a_Rock:_The_Fighters_Handbook
Redesign your character, bearing in mind what your role is. Also bear in mind 4e heavily encourages refluffing.
Repost character and then ask for advice.
+1 to this.
What exactly are you trying too accomplish with this character and what did you want to play if not a defender. The first rule of D&D is ,Play what the hell you want to play. If your not having fun with your character then thats gonna drag the rest of the group down.
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11 months ago ::
Jul 16, 2012 - 1:21PM
#37
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Well, if the multiclass on Battle Cleric's Lore passes i can have the same AC as with a heavy shield. If not i am 2 points of AC behind.
Even if BCL passes, the Avenger will have to too, and you'll still be behind. You also won't get the Reflex boost, or feat boosts to other defenses, if you choose. You also won't get the shield goodies. That's the choice you make. You're sacrificing defense and defending for offense.
If you want a Striker with good defenses, a Barbarian|Cleric hybrid would be one way to go (not sure if the third party member is a leader) or a Slayer, I suppose. I'm not really fond of the Berserker but it's a viable class.
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11 months ago ::
Jul 16, 2012 - 1:26PM
#38
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Date Joined:
Oct 27, 2011
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Don't worry about going down the 2hand route. Shield Fighters are more intuitive to build and have, to some extent, obvious options, especially for those affected by the MMO "tank" mentality.
But you can be a PERFECTLY FINE Fighter while using a 2hand weapon. Even when compared to CharOP standards.
Edit: technically the swap is RAW legal. BCL doesn't require being a Cleric, only that you have Healer's Lore. As long as you can grab Healer's Lore, you can swap it for BCL. Which does NOT means you can just MC Cleric. You need to take Divine Healer (15Wis required), because Divine Healer gives you Healer's Lore. If you MC via Initiate of the Faith, you gain nothing.
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11 months ago ::
Jul 16, 2012 - 1:37PM
#39
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Don't worry about going down the 2hand route. Shield Fighters are more intuitive to build and have, to some extent, obvious options, especially for those affected by the MMO "tank" mentality.
But you can be a PERFECTLY FINE Fighter while using a 2hand weapon. Even when compared to CharOP standards.
He can be fine, but his main concern as posted was that he felt his defenses were lagging. Sword and board mitigates his main concern.
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11 months ago ::
Jul 16, 2012 - 1:43PM
#40
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Date Joined:
Nov 16, 2007
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Lately, I see only one reason to build a two handed weapon talent fighter, it's for polearm builds. Otherwise, if you don't want a shield or off-hand weapon, and/or want to do more damage, may as well just play a Slayer.
So if I was wanting to play a longtooth shifter two handed weapon talent fighter, I'd pick up Greatspear, Deft Hurler (use with Hungry Spear), Hafted Defense, Superior Will. I'd pick up Polearm Momentum around the time I find Rushing Cleats (probably level 8). End of heroic tier, I'd pick up weapon focus. For starting array, I like 16/13/14/8/14/10. The 13's and 14's can move around according to taste, but Int should be the dump stat, Cha helps Intimidate.
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