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11 months ago ::
Jul 09, 2012 - 12:53PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Jun 21, 2008
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Here is my question: can you slide a creature vertically into the air? If not, please cite a source which states this cannot be done. If so, I propose that Beguiling Strands can be used to teleport all creatures within burst 7 up to 14 squares and deal an additional 7d10 damage each round to all targets. Rules Compedium
Slide (p.211): Sliding a target can move it in any direction.
Square (p.200): ...is equivalent to a 5 foot square in the game world.
Falling Damage (p.209): A creature takes 1d10 damage for each 10 feet it falls, to a maximum of 50d10 damage. The creature falls prone when it lands.
Considering that there is no errata for the Rules Compendium, and assuming the statement "move in any direction" actually means you can move in any direction, any power (especially at-will powers) that slides 2 squares or more incredibly deadly if you use the power to slide a creature up, even overpowered.
Let alone slide optimization..
beguiling strands + arcane admixture + mark of storm + resounding thunder + enlarge spell + psychic lock = Int -2 +2d10 damage + slide 4 + prone + -2 to next attack roll to all creatures in a burst 7? Every single round?
Which brings me to the next issue in this combo:
Dragon 387
Walk Among The Fey: ...where you teleport the creature remains subject to any restrictions on the original slide.
Now, add on the feat Walk Among The Fey and teleportation optimization. If you cannot use a slide to move a creature vertically, then a teleportation/slide optimization combo cannot be used as follows.
However, if you can slide creatures up, this feat lets you teleport creatures up. Which means, with an optimized teleport items..
Walk Among The Fey + Eladrin Chain (+3) + 2 Methridaine Steel (+2) + Ring of Retreat (+1) + Ring of Dimensional Escape (+1) + Eladrin Boots (+2) = +4d10 damage (+9 squares). I'm certain there's another way to get 1 extra square to the slide, so we'll round up to an even +5d10.
So to recap..
targets Will
affects all enemies within burst 7
Int -2 +7d10 damage
teleport target 14 squares
prones enemies that can't make successful acrobatics check (which is most)
-2 to next attack roll
can be subject to charm and psychic optimization
Every single round.
This puts most daily attacks to shame.
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11 months ago ::
Jul 09, 2012 - 12:58PM
#2
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Date Joined:
Aug 17, 2011
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PHB page 286: Clear Path: Forced movement can’t move a target
into a space it couldn’t enter by walking. The target
can’t be forced into an obstacle or made to squeeze
into a space.
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11 months ago ::
Jul 09, 2012 - 12:58PM
#3
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Date Joined:
Feb 19, 2006
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Forced movement was updated specifically to preclude vertical movement. From the PHB rules updates ( www.wizards.com/dnd/files/UpdatePH.pdf) Pull, Push, and Slide
Page 285: Add the following bullet point to the
shaded text. This update clarifies how forced
movement works in three dimensions versus two
dimensions.
✦ Two-Dimensional: Forced movement is normally twodimensional; all the squares of the movement must
be on the same horizontal plane. Forced movement
can become three-dimensional when the target is
flying, is moved through a substance such as water, or
is on a non-horizontal surface, such as an incline, that
supports it. This means an earthbound target cannot
normally be pushed to a square in the air, but a hovering target can be. Similarly, a target can be pulled
down a flight of stairs, and it can be slid in any direction underwater
As for teleporting, they get a save if you try to teleport them into the air.
Teleportation
Page 286: Replace the text for the Destination entry
and the Immobilized entry. This change addresses
what happens when a creature is forced to teleport,
and it clarifies that the Immobilized entry includes
restrained as well.
Teleportation
✦ Destination: Your destination must be a space you
can occupy without squeezing. If arriving in the
destination space would cause the target to fall or if
that space is hindering terrain, the target can make a
saving throw. On a save, the teleportation is negated.
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11 months ago ::
Jul 09, 2012 - 1:04PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Jun 21, 2008
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So they updated the rules in the PHB, but not in the Rules compendium? That seems senseless, to have a rules compendium without updated or complete rules, or an errata to follow. Thanks for the info, this completely changes the abuse one of my players is currently pulling :D
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11 months ago ::
Jul 09, 2012 - 1:09PM
#5
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Date Joined:
Feb 19, 2006
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So they updated the rules in the PHB, but not in the Rules compendium? That seems senseless, to have a rules compendium without updated or complete rules, or an errata to follow. Thanks for the info, this completely changes the abuse one of my players is currently pulling :D
Well it was updated in the PHB because the change was prior to the RC, but there is equivalent wording in the RC on page 213 for both forced movement and teleports.
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11 months ago ::
Jul 09, 2012 - 1:25PM
#6
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Date Joined:
Jun 21, 2008
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Well it was updated in the PHB because the change was prior to the RC, but there is equivalent wording in the RC on page 213 for both forced movement and teleports.
So there is! My bad :/
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11 months ago ::
Jul 09, 2012 - 9:18PM
#7
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And beyond all that, Beguiling Strands is a Blast, not Burst, and it cannot be enlarged because it lacks damage dice; and Ring of Retreat only adds to the distance of powers that have the Teleportation keyword.
If you wanted to maximize targets teleported at-will Freezing Burst would be the better place to start, since it can be made into a Burst 4 (9x9 trumps beguiling strands max of 7x7) and has a starting slide of 1 so it's also a longer distance. Not that you can teleport non-flying creatures into the air with WatF anyway.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection. My Guides
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11 months ago ::
Jul 10, 2012 - 4:39PM
#8
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While we're on the topic, those forced movement rules apply to monsters as well, right? In LA3, pterodactyls were pulling PCs off the ground, and in LA4 spiders on the ceiling are also yanking PCs off the ground.
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11 months ago ::
Jul 10, 2012 - 4:44PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Nov 23, 2003
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While we're on the topic, those forced movement rules apply to monsters as well, right?
Monsters can have powers that give them forced movement and explicitely permit them to perform verticle pulls. Sometimes the authors even remember to write those special-exceptions into the monster's power block.
"Nice assumptions. Completely wrong assumptions, but by jove if being incorrect stopped people from making idiotic statements, we wouldn't have modern internet subculture." Kerrus
Practical gameplay runs by neither RAW or RAI, but rather "A Compromise Between The Gist Of The Rule As I Recall Getting The Impression Of It That One Time I Read It And What Jerry Says He Remembers, Whatever, We'll Look It Up Later If Any Of Us Still Give A Damn." Erachima
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11 months ago ::
Jul 10, 2012 - 6:39PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Feb 26, 2011
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While we're on the topic, those forced movement rules apply to monsters as well, right?
Monsters can have powers that give them forced movement and explicitely permit them to perform verticle pulls. Sometimes the authors even remember to write those special-exceptions into the monster's power block.
Keyword there being "sometimes" 
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