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12 months ago ::
Jul 18, 2012 - 9:32PM
#171
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Date Joined:
Jun 22, 2008
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I personally feel that ability scores should have less effect on game mechanics. Experience should have a greater effect than strength or dexterity. I dislike systems where you need to maximize one score to create a more ideal character. When a 20 strength gives an extra 5% chance to hit and an extra point of damage or more, it makes sense to create the maximum character.
Perhaps these bonuses would be better:
1-4 = -2 penalty
5-8 = -1 penalty
9-12 = no bonus or penalty
13-16 = +1 bonus
17-20 = +2 bonus
You could then set min/max ability scores or bonuses/penalties by race/gender without angering anyone who wants to play a halfling/female fighter or a male/orc wizard.
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12 months ago ::
Jul 18, 2012 - 10:27PM
#172
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Date Joined:
Jun 15, 2006
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* She is the strongest woman of the region because madam Obelixa fell into the druid´s cauldron when she was child. More explanation isn´t necesary, OK?.
"Say me what you're showing off for, and I'll say you what you lack!" (Spanish saying)
Book 13 Anaclet 23
Confucius said: "The Superior Man is in harmony but does not follow the crowd. The inferior man follows the crowd, but is not in harmony"
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12 months ago ::
Jul 19, 2012 - 5:12AM
#173
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Date Joined:
Mar 21, 2012
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The thing is natural human males are more likely to be taller and have a higher muscle density, this is not true of all races since sometimes this is switched, equal does not equal the same. Now i do not think it should be a feature forced on you, but difference in gender do exist, however there are also tall and strong females, though the strongest woman is probably not as strong as the strongest man that doesn't matter since women in general have other things which balance that out, but i do belive there should be caps for race instead of stats, and the stat bonuses should come from class, if you want to show that lifestyle effects you more than your race.
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12 months ago ::
Jul 19, 2012 - 10:45AM
#174
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Date Joined:
Jan 21, 2004
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* She is the strongest woman of the region because madam Obelixa fell into the druid´s cauldron when she was child. More explanation isn´t necesary, OK?.
I agree that there should be no hard cap for those that want to use magic or destiny to exceed racial norms. That's actually a lot of fun. I'd be happy with a cap as a guideline saying that these are expected norms but with a caveat that any gender or race can exceed them with an in-story excuse. Why can't the halfling irradiated by gamma rays in that wizard's lab have 20 strength - he can - but he will be flagged as an oddity among his people. Sounds groovy to me.
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12 months ago ::
Jul 19, 2012 - 11:32AM
#175
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I still don't understand why it is taboo to give males and females different advantages for each race.
Studies show that women:
Live longer, better immune systems, graduate from college more, invest better, cleaner, more organized, manage better, eat healthier, rated more attractive (by both men and women), better penmanship, and other advantages over men.
Human males are larger and stronger than human females. Human females might be given better scores in dexterity, constitution, intellgence, wisdom, or charisma in exchange.
Other races might flip roles.
I like variety. Gender can add variety.
If not in ability scores maybe in other mechanics, such as skills.
Most of the things you list for women are likely products of societal influence, rather than genetics.
Further, the actual physical differences between men and women are small enough that to compare them to the differences between an elf and a human is preposterous. It's like claiming that men and women are as different as border collies and mastiffs.
On average, men have a stronger hand grip, tend to be taller and have more muscle power. Now, unless you have a pocket world that no one knows about that is not like ours, where women have been discouraged from exercising physical strength for thousands of years, with a change in that being only a few decades old, at most, then you don't know how hard coded that difference is. For all we know right now, an aggressive ad campaign that encouraged young men to find larger, more athletic women attractive, and encouraged women to look at slimmer, more bookish men could completely change that in a matter of a few generations.
The actual difference is that small, and that much a matter of averages.
It's not worth making mechanics for, when those mechanics would annoy a large part of the community, and add more restrictions than real benefits to the system. At the DnD level of precision, men and women are the same.
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
I could say anything in D&D is silly though, because it's a silly game and we are silly people.
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12 months ago ::
Jul 19, 2012 - 1:00PM
#176
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Date Joined:
Jun 22, 2008
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Average
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Good
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Great
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Excellent
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Males under 220 lbs
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1.25x Bodyweight
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1.5x Bodyweight
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1.75x Bodyweight
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2x Bodyweight
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Males over 220 lbs
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1x Bodyweight
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1.3x Bodyweight
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1.6x Bodyweight
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1.85x Bodyweight
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Females
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.5x Bodyweight
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.75x Bodyweight
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1x Bodyweight
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1.2x Bodyweight
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Here is a chart that shows benchpressing capacity. I would say these differences in strength are quite significant. Certainly they would be easily applied in an ability score such as strength. In 3.5E, a 10 strength can lift 100 lbs over his/her head. A 15 strength can lift 200 lbs over his head. Find me 1 woman who can lift 200 lbs over her head and I'll find 100 men who can (every man on every college football team in the USA). I can lift 200 lbs over my head. My wife is in great shape, exercises, and lift weights but she would have no chance of it. I disagree that those things I listed as advantages for women are societal rather than genetic. Most researchers feel there is likely a genetic component in all of those. To say there is no differences between men and women is simply not true. To say that a game system will ignore those differences reflects a desire to represent a fantasy situation rather than reality. As I have played D&D over the years, I have played both male and female characters. I admit, if one gender would optimize my character towards a certain class that I wanted to play, I would take that gender. Why take a male drow if a female drow was superior? I would like subtle differences in gender though just to add flavor.
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12 months ago ::
Jul 19, 2012 - 2:05PM
#177
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Date Joined:
Jul 11, 2012
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To say there is no differences between men and women is simply not true. To say that a game system will ignore those differences reflects a desire to represent a fantasy situation rather than reality.
Replacing reality with fantasy? Sounds exactly like what most of the rpgs excell at doing, especially, the ones of the *fantasy* genre. Last time I checked DnD was not grim-n-gritty science fiction.
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12 months ago ::
Jul 19, 2012 - 3:02PM
#178
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Date Joined:
Jun 22, 2008
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To say there is no differences between men and women is simply not true. To say that a game system will ignore those differences reflects a desire to represent a fantasy situation rather than reality.
Replacing reality with fantasy? Sounds exactly like what most of the rpgs excell at doing, especially, the ones of the *fantasy* genre. Last time I checked DnD was not grim-n-gritty science fiction.
Let's just admit though that part of the reason DnD is making the game gender neutral is to be politically correct. I like customization though. I realize that men and women are different.
My preferred bonus system for ability scores would be:
1-4 = -2 penalty
5-8 = -1 penalty
9-12 = no bonus or penalty
13-16 = +1 bonus
17-20 = +2 bonus
Male humans: +1 str
Female humans: -1 str, +1 wis, +1 cha
Male high elves: +1 dex
Female high elves: +1 wis
Male drow: +1 int
Female drow: +1 cha
Male Orc: +2 str, -1 int, -1 wis, -1 cha
Female Orc: +1 str, +1 con, -1 int, -1 cha
etc.
Class:
Fighter: +1 str
Cleric: +1 wis
Mage: +1 int
Thief: +1 dex
Monk: +1 con
Bard: +1 cha
If the effect of ability score was minimized, min/maxing would not be so desirable. A person might like a 20 str just to be stronger than an 18 str even if there was no mechanical advantage.
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12 months ago ::
Jul 19, 2012 - 4:15PM
#179
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Date Joined:
Jan 21, 2004
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Penalties are bad. They still let your woman obtain 20 strength but she's penalised more on her other stats. Caps are better and you can keep your racial and class bonuses to make it easier to reach your cap:
Male humans: 20 str 18, wis 18 Cha
Female humans: 18 str 20 Wis 19 Cha
Male high elves: 19 str 20 dex
Female high elves: 18 str 19 dex 20 wis
Male drow: 17 str 20 int
Female drow: 18 str 20 wis 20 cha
Male Orc: 20 str, 19 con, 18 int, 17 wis, 16 cha
Female Orc: 19 str, 19 con, 19 int, 18 wis, 17 cha
etc.
Class:
Fighter: +1 str
Cleric: +1 wis
Mage: +1 int
Thief: +1 dex
Monk: +1 con
Bard: +1 cha
You can make the caps as simple or as complex as you like. In previous editions the only gender cap was on strength (except for the drow) and that could work ok in 5e - female characters would end up with more points to spend in other abilities leading to subtle gender stereotypes. I do think it would only be fair if attack bonuses and penalties were never more than +/-2 but I'd be ok sticking to the full damage bonus.
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12 months ago ::
Jul 19, 2012 - 4:22PM
#180
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I realize that men and women are different.
We all realize that. A lot of us just don't think it matters, or should matter, enough to be represented in a game about fantastic heroes.
My preferred bonus system for ability scores would be. . .
I don't see WotC changing the ability score bonus pattern when it has existed that way throughout at least 3 editions (AD&D 2e, 3e, & 4e). In light of that, instituting ability score differences for genders would only increase the min/max-ing.
I would also like to point out that your male/female stat modifiers never has women being stronger than men. Why? The different races are different species. Why must non-humans obey human gender stereotypes?
Why Mechanics-Alignment Integration is Bad
Show
so why even play a fighter if you can play the paladin the exact same way behaviorally and get added power to boot. "Paladin" is about accepting better game-enhancing mechanics at the price of more rigid in game behavior.
Really? So it goes something like this?
Fighter: "I want to be a paladin."
NPC: "Really?"
Fighter: "Yes."
NPC: "Very well." Starts reading from a holy book while still in-character "Do you accept having to choose and stick to the lawful good alignment, eventhough neither of us actually knows that it exists or what it is?"
Fighter: "I do."
NPC: "Do you reject good game balance because you accidentally rolled a high Charisma?"
Fighter: "What?"
NPC: "I don't know what it means either."
Fighter: "Oh. Umm, ok I do."
NPC: "In the name of all that is metagamey and broken, accept these better game enhancing mechanics."
Fighter: "These what?"
NPC: "Just get out there and try to fulfill a million different people's notion of good while not violating and part of any of them."
So the system is designed such that every single hit needs to be described to avoid confusion? Here's a scenario. The players are nudists, everybody in the world are nudists, it's not weird, it's totally normal in this land. They are naked and they fight drakes taking damage throughout, but healing up with surges. Later they meet the guy who raised the drakes.
Part 1: I didn't describe any of the hits. What does he see?
Part 2: Lets say I described the drakes as biting the players, yet they healed up. What does he see?
D20 Modern Toon PC Race.
Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.
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