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11 months ago ::
Jul 06, 2012 - 12:32PM
#1
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What is it that 4E fans want from the 5E Wizard or a class named a different name With an AEDU spell progression that feels like the 4E Wizard?
What I want is a bookish feeling controller type caster that can swap out spells and get At-Will, Encounter, and Daily spells. I want a caster that can be versatile when the situation calls for it. I want them to be able to stand in for another class, but not replace them. I want slight durability, but not the ability to blast enemies, or wade into combat...
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11 months ago ::
Jul 06, 2012 - 2:16PM
#2
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Date Joined:
May 27, 2012
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I want a caster that can be versatile when the situation calls for it. I want them to be able to stand in for another class, but not replace them.
A jack-of-all-casters? That's actually really interesting. Everyone else is focused on doing their own thing, but the wizard is the one who actually understands what's going on and how it's all connected.
The metagame is not the game.
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11 months ago ::
Jul 06, 2012 - 2:27PM
#3
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Date Joined:
Mar 31, 2012
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What I want is an AE mechanic. Daily spells could be the sole domain of Vancian casters. Encounter powers would be scaled down Daily spells serving as the encounter spells. Utility spells would be scrapped, as a separate spell group, and non-combat Utility spells take up Encounter spell slots. Some, which take an hour or so to resolve (such as comprehend languages) can be encounter spells, like how combat spells are, and because of their long durration, they could not be quickly replaced with a combat spell (the full durration of the spell would have to be up). Spells like Knock, however, have a very short duration, essentially the round used to cast it, so they would take up the slot for the rest of the day, essentially "burning out" that slot, the same way vancian casters do, or else they could be cast as rituals. Spells could be swapped or filled into empty, but not "burnt out" spell slots, during a short rest.
I don't want them to be very durable, but I want the core rules to make sure that they don't die easily, and that they can heal fairly easily. They need to be squishy, but not really death prone.
I don't think the bookish-feel should be baked into the class. After all, that's what the Backgrounds are for.
If they have to have a separate spell list, I'd lean on heavy control, and AoE powers. Almost no purely damage powers.
I am currently raising funds to run for President in 2016. Too many administrations have overlooked the international menace, that is Carmen Sandiego. I shall devote any and all necessary military resources to bring her to justice.
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11 months ago ::
Jul 06, 2012 - 2:33PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Sep 21, 2007
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What about some Weak(ish) Vancian spells that have the Encounter characteristic so they can be memorised like normal each day but can be refreshed and cast again after a short rest. That way it's the best of both worlds.
You've already got At-Wills in the system and most of the spells are Dailys and Utilities.
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11 months ago ::
Jul 06, 2012 - 2:50PM
#5
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Date Joined:
Mar 31, 2012
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What about some Weak(ish) Vancian spells that have the Encounter characteristic so they can be memorised like normal each day but can be refreshed and cast again after a short rest. That way it's the best of both worlds.
You've already got At-Wills in the system and most of the spells are Dailys and Utilities.
That could work (assuming I understand you correctly), assuming there are enough Encounter and Daily spells to suit different playstyles. For example, I should be able to use illusion spells if I use daily spells or Encounter spells. Same with other sorts of spells. Another problem I can potentially see, however, is that spell-slots can get out of control. Encounter-based wizards need much fewer spell-slots, or else their spells begin to become almost like at-will spells. However Vancian wizards need much more spells, or else they run into that standard problem of running out of spells after one fight. I think someone stated 9 spells/day would do it, however, to keep them balanced. Maybe Encounter spells take more slots than Daily spells. However if we were to do that, I'd let them swap out those spells on a limited basis.
I am currently raising funds to run for President in 2016. Too many administrations have overlooked the international menace, that is Carmen Sandiego. I shall devote any and all necessary military resources to bring her to justice.
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11 months ago ::
Jul 06, 2012 - 3:08PM
#6
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My opinion probably differs from many 4e fans but I would like purely encounter based Vancian magic for wizards. I way wizards to have to study spells quickly then fire and forget them in a way that actually makes sense instead of being arbitrarily limited by days. Then I want at-will 4e style non attack cantrips. Maybe the wizard will have the ability to memorize 5 spells at once only but risks running out in any given fight and he must actually choose between buffs (flight, invisibility, Mage armor, etc) and attacks. I would be fine if this wizard could learn as many spells rituals as they can acquire. The wizard will be a real utility caster but their power would be significantly toned down.
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11 months ago ::
Jul 06, 2012 - 5:24PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Mar 19, 2004
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I would also like to see a primarily encounter-based caster. However, I'd prefer to leave the possibility of having a couple of spell slots open for Daily use. I'm talking very few here, even as low as ONE. Basically, this Daily spell just acts as a floating reserve for emergencies.
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11 months ago ::
Jul 06, 2012 - 5:35PM
#8
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Date Joined:
Sep 26, 2001
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What is it that 4E fans want from the 5E Wizard or a class named a different name With an AEDU spell progression that feels like the 4E Wizard?
All I want from any class is that it be balanced and playable with all others. The playtest characters fail that test completely. Heck, so do some Essentials classes.
AEDU was nothing special. That all classes used AEDU was the innovation.
5e could improve upon 4e - or at least, avoid being substantially worse than 4e - if it just picked /something/ and stuck with it.
Love 4e? Concerned about its future? Join the Old Guard of 4e"You want The Tooth? You can't handle The Tooth!" - Dahlver-Nar. "If magic is unrestrained in the campaign, D&D quickly degenerates into a weird wizard show where players get bored quickly" - E. Gary Gygax
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11 months ago ::
Jul 06, 2012 - 5:46PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Mar 19, 2004
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Well, certainly, they COULD have allowed interchangeable resource management subsystems. Instead they went with the 'class equals subsystem' route once again.
This will surely end well. /sarcasm
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11 months ago ::
Jul 06, 2012 - 6:30PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Sep 26, 2001
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Well, certainly, they COULD have allowed interchangeable resource management subsystems. Instead they went with the 'class equals subsystem' route once again.
True. Even having several system in different modules, so you could make the game daily-based or encounter-based or something else - so long as there was resource parity and balance among the classes - could have worked, too, while theoretically giving everyone what they wanted (just not at exactly the same time).
Love 4e? Concerned about its future? Join the Old Guard of 4e"You want The Tooth? You can't handle The Tooth!" - Dahlver-Nar. "If magic is unrestrained in the campaign, D&D quickly degenerates into a weird wizard show where players get bored quickly" - E. Gary Gygax
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