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Ive been playing 5th/Next for the past few weeks and I am abosolutely loving it.
However I do have a few concerns mechanically; the majority of which are covered many many Many times over. (Surprise and cover rules needing work, Fighters needing some fleshing out, somes rules text needs to be better defined)

What I will do tho is cover one that hasn't been covered.
In my experience, from playtesting this system I have a lot of concern that CHA will become a dump stat to classes that arent centered around it. Now the easy answer is (So?, INT is the same way) which to an extent is true but all of the knowledge checks are based around INT, something that sees much more play than say Diplomacy. What I mean by that is not that Diplomacy or bluff are obsolete skills but they have less of an impact if you are poor with it. At the end of the day, if youre a good roleplayer and you can role play out a situation your DM is not going to punish you for having a poor CHA. 

Second of all, most of the stats have some sort of mechanical advantage in investing them. (Str boosts damage and encumberance, Dex boosts AC, Con boosts HP, Int ...nothing just yet but easily can be tied with skills not using the background system, Wis is your equivilent will save and your perception roll) Now, this may just be complaining on my part but what I would suggest is a flip flopping of some of the advantages. (Of course, feel free to tell me how much I suck at this :P )

1. Change most mind influencing effects to be Vs. Cha rather than Wis. What would explain this is your character's force of personality or ego holding them off.  Let's be honest, Wis has enough value already being the 'spot' stat, the 'survival' stat, and the 'divine magic' stat.

2.  Offer early game feats that allow for morale bonuses based on Cha checks.

Now we could make CHA more prevelent in class abilities but honestly that's more of a band-aid on the problem. Classes are already based on specific stats and unless there's enough already n the class to justify investment, players will not use it. Players are already stretched on points as it is, no need to make it worse.

(Just my thoughts) 

Some people have IT. You may have seen it at your office, on the football field, at your church, or in any crucible where leaders must emerge for groups to work effectively together. CHA should represent that IT more thoroughly.

Few Things Benefit A Party More Than Effective Leadership- Did you ever work on a group project where no one was able to provide inspiration, creativity, or direction? Being motivated, focused, and confident in your unit delivers better results, period. CHA should be the static delivery system that tangibly represents that, no roll required. An example would be: The entire party receives an initiative bonus equal to the highest CHA modifier in the party. Why? Because that person's charisma has the party loose and relaxed, or pumped up and ready to rock. The charismatic person gets the most out of the people around them, so how could that NOT include the party, whose buttons they know how to push best.

Interacting with NPC's- D&D handles CHA most effectively via direct communication with NPCs: Diplomacy, Bluff, Intimidate.

Leading by example- Not every leader is a "rah-rah" guy. DMs need to take into account that for many people actions speak louder than words, rather than lean 100% on RP. Make some Passive Inspiration CHA rolls to show how someone with exceptional charisma can affect people by showing and not telling. This helps players who are not gregarious effectively play high CHA characters, and it is the way the world works.

Willpower- Ignoring pain and fear goes beyond physical constitution, you need inner strength and determination. Why does Rocky keep getting up? CON alone did not drive Rudy or Samwise when the chips were down (thanks Sean Astin) "Heart" is CHA. There is design space there to be played with.

Jun 25, 2012 -- 8:42PM, lawrencehoy wrote:

Jun 25, 2012 -- 4:16PM, 6_Demon_Bag wrote:

Some people have IT. You may have seen it at your office, on the football field, at your church, or in any crucible where leaders must emerge for groups to work effectively together. CHA should represent that IT more thoroughly.

Few Things Benefit A Party More Than Effective Leadership- Did you ever work on a group project where no one was able to provide inspiration, creativity, or direction? Being motivated, focused, and confident in your unit delivers better results, period. CHA should be the static delivery system that tangibly represents that, no roll required. An example would be: The entire party receives an initiative bonus equal to the highest CHA modifier in the party. Why? Because that person's charisma has the party loose and relaxed, or pumped up and ready to rock. The charismatic person gets the most out of the people around them, so how could that NOT include the party, whose buttons they know how to push best.

Interacting with NPC's- D&D handles CHA most effectively via direct communication with NPCs: Diplomacy, Bluff, Intimidate.

Leading by example- Not every leader is a "rah-rah" guy. DMs need to take that into account that for many people actions speak louder than words, rather than lean 100% on RP. Make some Passive Inspiration CHA rolls to show how someone with exceptional charisma can affect people by showing and not telling. This helps players who are not gregarious effectively play high CHA characters, and it is the way the world works.

Willpower- Ignoring pain and fear goes beyond physical constitution, you need inner strength and determination. Why does Rocky keep getting up? CON alone did not drive Rudy or Samwise when the chips were down (thanks Sean Astin) "Heart" is CHA. There is design space there to be played with.

While I agree with everything you've stated, I would like to see some of the inspirational benefits you used as examples reserved for the Bard class; especially the initiative bonus mentioned.

At least make the Bard's contribution better than anything received simply from from having a party member with a high Charisma score.

Agreed. The bard should be brilliant in this arena, and have its own cake it's bringing to the party.


So, outside of skills:
STR adds to your Melee attack and damage
DEX has AC and ranged attacks
CON has Hit Points

These have always been clear cut static improvements.

Ask yourself, why shouldn't CHA help improve the party in a similar (static) way? Obviously I feel similarly about INT and WIS... They need mechanical space beyond skills.

Jun 26, 2012 -- 9:35AM, AnthonyJ wrote:

Jun 25, 2012 -- 2:41PM, Lost_Sorcerer wrote:

At the end of the day, if youre a good roleplayer and you can role play out a situation your DM is not going to punish you for having a poor CHA.

Depends heavily on the DM. The argument seems to be "charisma is useless because people don't use the rules for charisma". I would propose that this would be solved by having people use the rules for charisma...

This. CHA is a massive dump stat because many players don't perceive static tangible value, and many DMs underutilize it in game. I don't think skills and saves will sucifice to raise CHA's profile, because they are ethereal during character creation.