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12 months ago ::
Jun 27, 2012 - 5:53PM
#21
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Date Joined:
Oct 24, 2001
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In short, I feel it is ahead of its time relative to most TRPGs prior to 2008.
I can get behind that assessment. 
Here are the PHB essentia, in my opinion: - Three Basic Rules (p 11)
- Power Types and Usage (p 54)
- Skills (p178-179)
- Feats (p 192)
- Rest and Recovery (p 263)
- All of Chapter 9 [Combat] (p 264-295)
A player needs to read the sections for building his or her character -- race, class, powers, feats, equipment, etc. But those are PC-specific. The above list is for everyone, regardless of the race or class or build or concept they are playing.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 28, 2012 - 10:32PM
#22
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I live in a small town and generally have the same players week after week, year after year, decade after decade (literally).
I am very nearly always the DM, and the group is genuinely content to run whatever version I feel like DM'ing.
I stubbornly (and regretfully) did not even try 4e until 2009, we played v2.x until that time. Now, 4e is by far my favorite version and I will never switch again. Nor do I have the slightest interest in some 'almost/kinda/sorta' 4e version made by another company. D&DNext will never get a penny out of me, unless they put out something that is utterly compatible with 4e.
I will enjoy 4e material for as long as it's available, and then I will make do with what I have for as long as I'm able to DM (turned 50 this year).
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12 months ago ::
Jun 28, 2012 - 11:17PM
#23
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Wow, someone almost as stubborn as I am.
You skipped all of 3.0 and 3.5? wow. That was pretty fun, even though I missed out on 3 years of it.
2 of our group have said pretty much the same thing: we're not buying 5th, or any future books except maybe modules.
I, for one, was annoyed with the collector/baseball card/pokemon manner of the plastic minis in the unknown packs. So I'm glad they stopped that, though WotC hasn't replaced it with anything else. Oh well... That's what Privateer Press' minis are for.
Started buying the 4E books myself last Summer. Still missing a bunch, because I only buy about 1/month, IF the book store has something I don't already have.
Colors
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Bow down, my subjects, for I am your master! Yesss.....
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For some reason, none of my friends were surprised by this...
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12 months ago ::
Jun 29, 2012 - 6:03AM
#24
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I, for one, was annoyed with the collector/baseball card/pokemon manner of the plastic minis in the unknown packs. So I'm glad they stopped that, though WotC hasn't replaced it with anything else.
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they kind of have. i mean they use non-random tokens now in a lot of their products which for me, and i have a ton of minis, is better. i much prefer buying a product such as the monster vault and having tokens with the exact images of all of the monsters come with it, rather than mixing and matching similar looking creatures. my wife loathes the tokens though
although im not interested in it, the dungeon command thing they have coming out at least has minis grouped by type. aalso, you may not be aware of the beholder and dragon mini sets they did recently. they were non-random. didnt thrill me but at least you knew what you were getting.
none of these are perfect solutions but they are efforts to avoid "the collector/baseball card/pokemon manner of the plastic minis in the unknown packs"
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12 months ago ::
Jun 29, 2012 - 4:44PM
#25
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Wow, this is... interesting. From what I understand: technically, Orcus I was supposed to be 4E. Orcus I ended up in a portion of Book of Nine Swords. Then in 2006, the "new design" by the original team -- Design team was James Wyatt, Andy Collins and Rob Heinsoo, while the Development team was Robert Gutchera, Mike Donais, Rich Baker, Mike Mearls and Rob Heinsoo -- was questioned by Mike Mearls and Rich Baker because the whole thing was not 3.5E enough, resulting in the at-will, encounter, and daily power resource we have today. In other words, 4E should technically have been Book of Nine Swords for all classes, and a new game called "Orcus" instead of D&D 4E. It basically turned out to be a great idea being hammered into 3.5E paradigm. And basically, if you thought 4E was a bad game, you have only Mike Mearls to blame. Everyone having same powers? Him and Baker. Everyone having dailies? Him and Baker. Who is the lead developer for D&D Next again? Although to be fair, the MMO feel (with the roles thing and all) wasn't Mearl's: it was Dave Noonan's idea apparently.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 30, 2012 - 3:54PM
#26
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And basically, if you thought 4E was a bad game, you have only Mike Mearls to blame. Everyone having same powers? Him and Baker. Everyone having dailies? Him and Baker.
Well now I know who to thank. 4E is excellent, much better than previous incarnations IMO. I was so sick of wizards being demi-gods compared to the rest at high levels.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 30, 2012 - 4:22PM
#27
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And basically, if you thought 4E was a bad game, you have only Mike Mearls to blame. Everyone having same powers? Him and Baker. Everyone having dailies? Him and Baker.
Well now I know who to thank. 4E is excellent, much better than previous incarnations IMO. I was so sick of wizards being demi-gods compared to the rest at high levels.
Yup  I love, love D&D 4E compared to previous incarnations, and I LOVE the fact that 13th Age basically takes what was learned from Tome of Battle, 4E and other editions + other RPGs and molds it into a very nice and well-articulated "love letter" to D&D In spite of what the detractors are saying.
Ironic that the detractors of 4E are singing praises to the very same guy that scrapped Tome of Battle-esque innovations and introduced the AEDU system that some of them are STILL despising due to "lack of versimilitude", "it makes fighters melee wizards", etc.
I really wish Orcus was released instead of 4E though; We might have had an even better system than what we have. Then again it wouldn't have the "D&D" logo, which might have pushed away the DM that introduced me to D&D in the first place, so it's all good
Thank you Mike Mearls, Rob Heinsoo, and all the other guys involved in D&D 4E's development, although I certainly don't envy your job right now Mike, given how the very innovations you thought would "fix everything" were basically the exact same innovations that broke a lot of stuff in the end... and now you have to "fix everything" by designing a "back to roots" D&D that is attempts to unite 6+ design philosophies (pre-1E, 1-3, 3.5, 4, Essentials) in under one roof.
Good luck with that mess Mike.
[ Play a bit less Diablo 3, maybe? ]
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So let's see... we have
* the dislike of other people regarding 4E design, half or three fourths of which is from Mike Mearls' call to add 3.5E elements to the system
* the apparently historical preference of Mike Mearls to 3.5E design, as shown not only in 4E's AEDU design, but even moreso in Essentials (complete with 3.xE's infamous "trap options" and "system mastery rewarding")
* D&D Next being designed by Mike Mearls
I think I lost faith in D&D Next. Will still try to contribute in the playtests, but I have no real hopes with D&D Next's design philosophy supporting anything outside of 3.5E.
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12 months ago ::
Jul 01, 2012 - 3:32AM
#28
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Date Joined:
Apr 15, 2001
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Dropped DDI last year, switched over to Pathfinder. Couldn't get the players togather for 4th ed.
Reducing a character to a list of dice rolls and modifiers is not role playing*
*pg 30, AD&D 2nd Ed DMG, 1989.
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12 months ago ::
Jul 02, 2012 - 6:05AM
#29
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Dropped DDI last year, switched over to Pathfinder. Couldn't get the players togather for 4th ed.
Hmm Pathfinder. Meh.
“The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear.” - H. P. Lovecraft Games I Play: - D&D 4e - D&D 3.5 - AD&D 2e - Pathfinder - Call of Cthulhu
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12 months ago ::
Jul 02, 2012 - 1:46PM
#30
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Date Joined:
Oct 30, 2011
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Dropped DDI last year, switched over to Pathfinder. Couldn't get the players togather for 4th ed.
Pathfinder. And people call 4e a "desperate money grab."
holydoom.weebly.com: Holydoom! A lighthearted RPG in progress. Loosely based on 3.5. 4, and GURPS. Very, Very, Very loosely. Seriously, visit it now. http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/ … s_Handbook An attempt at CharOp To anyone who thinks Pathfinder is outselling D&D
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While one report may say that FLGS report a greater amount of book sales, one cannot forget the fact that the 71000 DDI subscribers paying 6-10 dollars a month don't count as "Book Sales." "see sig" redirects here
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Oblivious troll is Oblivious PbP supporter! General thoughts, feelings, and info on DDN!
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Stuff I Heard Mike Say (subject to change): Multiclassing will be different than in 3.5! That's important.
There is no level cap; classes advance ala 3.5 epic levels after a set level.
Mundane (AKA fighter and co) encounter and daily powers will probably not be in the PHB (for the lack of space), but nor will they be in some obscure book released halfway through the edition. You can't please everyone, but you can please me. I DO NOT WANT A FREAKING 4E REPEAT. I DO NOT WANT A MODULE THAT MIMICS MY FAVORITE EDITION. I WANT MODULES THAT MIMIC A PLAYSTYLE AND CAN BE INTERCHANGED TO COMPLETELY CHANGE THE FEEL, BUT NOT THE THEME, OF D&D. A perfect example would be an espionage module, or desert survival. A BAD EXAMPLE IS HEALING SURGES. WE HAVE 4E FOR THOSE! A good example is a way to combine a mundane and self healing module, a high-survival-rate module, and a separate pool of healing resource module.
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