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12 months ago ::
Jun 22, 2012 - 11:29PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Aug 17, 2007
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I feel that D&D Next has some serious, deep-seeded, issues. That said, I believe that the play test is the best way to work out the kinks and have a good system. As much as I dislike what we have, I feel there is still potential, and I am willing to do my part... My players are a different story.
We've done three sessions of the play test, and with each passing session, my group likes the system less. This week when we played there was so much negativity toward the game that I actually felt hostility from my players--like they PO'd at me for "forcing" them to play. By now, half my group has no interest in continuing with the play test (and, inexplicably, one 20-year veteran has suggested quitting D&D entirely).
I've been doing pep talks, trying to keep everyone engaged, explaining that we only have the bare bones, and that the system will change and (hopefully) improve, but only if we put it through the paces and provide constructive feedback. My group has reluctantly agreed to give it another shot next week, but at this point there is no real enthusiasm. It's not a question of who like it and who hates it, but how much each person hates it. There are a couple who don't even want to take the feedback survey.
I'm not really sure what else I can do. The next session, we're going to try a level bump, but I'm concerned if I try another session after that, I may lose them entirely--before we even see the second packet. I hate to bail on this critical phase of the ply test, but I may have to put this aside until we see a more developed game.
Has anyone else experience anything like this? Does anyone have any suggestions?
D&D Next... for those who would rather play a version of D&D they dislike the least, rather than the one they like the most!
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12 months ago ::
Jun 23, 2012 - 1:21AM
#2
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Date Joined:
May 24, 2012
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My suggestion is - if you're not having fun, give it up. You're under no obligation to do playtest after playtest.
My group did one fairly long playtest - that's quite enough!
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12 months ago ::
Jun 23, 2012 - 3:33AM
#3
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Sounds a little bit harsh on the system. I dislike 4e and still I'd say that I could DM it and keep my players easily, especially since I regard systems as something supporting the true RPing, not carrying it and the same goes for Next, so what things do the players hate so bad about it in particular?
Also, Heselbine1 is correct. Don't play with someone who doesn't want to, games are for fun. Find some guys who want to contribute to D&D overall (even if your feedback is not implemented in Next, it is not lost, eh?) and are ready to put some work into it and for your current players, play something everyone at the table likes, 3.5 for example (if you want them to contribute to Next, ask them to make notes about what they really like about 3.5 that is lost in the Next playtest, I guess that would be nice to know for the developers. If you do so, think about converting Next playtest adventures into 3.5.)
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12 months ago ::
Jun 23, 2012 - 4:00AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Jun 24, 2007
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Another vote for playing something different if they're not having fun. To continue playtesting at this point (given your description of how they feel) would be counter productive to getting any constructive feedback (i.e. "this sucks" is not what will help the devs).
If finding another group to playtest with isn't an option for you then take a break until the next packet comes out (since it might include options that make it more palatable to your group).
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12 months ago ::
Jun 23, 2012 - 10:33AM
#5
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Actually I think you should stick it out. Let your players know that if they don't give WotC feedback, then this is what the next 4-10 years of D&D is going to look like. If they complain loud enough maybe WotC will change their mind and fix the problems.
If you walk away you are consigning D&D to being a broken failure for the next 4-10 years...
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12 months ago ::
Jun 23, 2012 - 10:45AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Aug 17, 2007
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Actually I think you should stick it out. Let your players know that if they don't give WotC feedback, then this is what the next 4-10 years of D&D is going to look like. If they complain loud enough maybe WotC will change their mind and fix the problems.
If you walk away you are consigning D&D to being a broken failure for the next 4-10 years...
This is really my way of thinking too, I just wish I could get more buy-in from my group. I'm a little surprised by how quickly they're willing to throw in the towel. But their actual anger is a complete shock coming from this group... they are all generally mellow and upbeat (I don't even think they've ever heard of the edition war). Last night we got together for drinks, and they spent easily half the night venting about how much they despised the system.
I'm thinking my best bet is to let them cool off a bit before we try again. Hopefully the next play test packet will have some changes and they can see that things are far from set in stone at this point.
D&D Next... for those who would rather play a version of D&D they dislike the least, rather than the one they like the most!
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12 months ago ::
Jun 23, 2012 - 10:50AM
#7
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Actually I think you should stick it out. Let your players know that if they don't give WotC feedback, then this is what the next 4-10 years of D&D is going to look like. If they complain loud enough maybe WotC will change their mind and fix the problems.
If you walk away you are consigning D&D to being a broken failure for the next 4-10 years...
This is really my way of thinking too, I just wish I could get more buy-in from my group. I'm a little surprised by how quickly they're willing to throw in the towel. But their actual anger is a complete shock coming from this group... they are all generally mellow and upbeat (I don't even think they've ever heard of the edition war). Last night we got together for drinks, and they spent easily half the night venting about how much they despised the system.
I'm thinking my best bet is to let them cool off a bit before we try again. Hopefully the next play test packet will have some changes and they can see that things are far from set in stone at this point.
Its mainly about a sudden change from something they like and enjoy to something they don't like. They feel like they 'own' D&D and that someone came in while they were away and 'wrecked' it. Just remind them that its WotC property and if they don't like the final result they can keep playing 4E or pathfinder or whatever...
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12 months ago ::
Jun 23, 2012 - 11:12AM
#8
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Date Joined:
May 25, 2012
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To answer your question, if your particular group of players is not enjoying themselves, then as a DM, you have the responsibility of making sure they are entertained. If that means forgoing the playtest with your friends, then do so.
I personally owned the original Keep on the Borderlands and ran it many times in the good ole' days. I knew the module consisted of a keep that adventurer's could use as a base of operations. I created one to help give the module some continuity. I used the story suggestions given of Gruumsh's eye falling to earth and racing to find it before the orcs do, and combined it with the dark cultists extorting the various tribes for sacrifices. This created an engaging story for my players, and kept the playtest from being nothing more than several forays into small boring dungeons.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 23, 2012 - 11:16AM
#9
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Date Joined:
Dec 21, 2011
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There is a big difference between playing for the playtest and playing in a regular campaign. Perhaps they don't really want to playtest. Also, until new material comes out, they may just be saturated. Give it a rest. Give them what they want.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 23, 2012 - 11:41AM
#10
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Date Joined:
Oct 27, 2007
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Has anyone else experience anything like this? Does anyone have any suggestions?
Here's my suggestion: What do they hate? Is it some of the mechanics? Houserule them back in. Is it the pregens? Make new characters from whatever edition you guys like most. Playtest what mechanics you can, explain in the playtest reports what parts you had to change to prevent player revolt. That will give the folks designing the game as good feedback as anything.
Have a problem with the prefab dungeon? Run a different one (Thunderspire Labyrinth is fantastic) and port in as much stuff from the playtest as your group is comfortable with.
This isn't a marathon. This isn't your day job. Part of what the developers are wanting to know here is what you decided to change and why--so run a fun game like your party is used to, swap out the lame parts and replace them with things you like better--then come back online and tell us what parts were lame and what parts you came up with that fixed them.
Seriously man, don't let the playtesting of the game you love drive you and your friends away from D&D--use it as a way you and your friends can sculpt D&D into a thing you love more!
Now with 100% more Vorthos!
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